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If what you're doing doesn't work....

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If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by dscott8   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:44 am

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... try something else. The subject here is violence motivated by ideology. Whether that ideology comes from ISIS, animal rights activists, abortion pros/cons or supremacist groups of any race or creed, their main tactic is to attack people in public to gain visibility for their cause.

I am fed up with it. I am also fed up with society's collective inability to stop it. Therefore, I am open to suggestions for new tactics that might improve on what we are doing now. To start the ball rolling:

After the attacks in Manchester and London, Prime Minister Theresa May suggested greater control over the Internet & social media, to counter one of the most widespread channels of radicalization. Like any tactic, this has its dangers; it would be easy to overdo it to the point of suppressing free speech. On the other hand, narrowly targeting proven motivators of violence could pay off. This would require cyber-warriors on the digital battlefield to distinguish between the usual loud malcontents and the true promoters of violence, and jam their signals.

A related question is: How do the radicalizers find people who can be radicalized? One big element is the personal data for sale in the business world. We've all scrolled down through privacy "terms of service" legalese and just clicked "accept". I believe it would be a huge benefit to society if we had a simple international agreement that forbids the buying or selling of any data attached to a name, address, or other way of identifying a specific individual. Marketing companies would hate it, because they would not be able to winnow data for targeted sales pitches, but personally I would love to see telemarketers starved to death for lack of my data.

Another route of attack would be to go after funding. This would require an international agreement to freeze the assets of those who advocate public violence. Internally, in the USA, it could be done under Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) law, but we'd need a way to handle international links. Follow the money.

Here's a controversial suggestion: Try to understand the radical's cause. While many bad actors sign up with extremist groups just to justify venting their personal spleen, most of these groups do have some sort of stated agenda, and in most cases there is a more moderate, non-violent element with the same agenda. Engaging these non-violent elements in sincere conversation helps take away the argument that violence is the only option left because they can't get their message out any other way.

Finally, I think we need to see the distinction between true solutions and band-aids. Much of government policy is a tale of good intentions poorly implemented by politicians who want to claim they did something before the next election. These problems didn't arise in a day, it's going to take time to make progress.
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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by Annachie   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:36 pm

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One thing the right wing sometimes gets right in this is that the soloutions have to come from the Islamic community in the middle east.
The west imposing solutions has only ever worked in the short term and has generally backfired anyway.

The recent fatwa out of Pakistan declaring suicide bombing haram is a good start.

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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by Imaginos1892   » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:11 am

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Tell the news media to STOP saying that this or that gang of mass murderers 'takes credit' or 'claims responsibility' for the atrocity du jour. The correct wording is ADMITS GUILT!

Don't grant them any respect. Condemn them as the chickenshits that they are, call them out for murdering the helpless, hiding behind the innocent, and running away from anyone who can stand up to them.
———————————
Terrorists and wacko nut jobs can't threaten our way of life or change who we are. Only we can do that. If we surrender to fear, if we give up our freedom for an illusion of safety, we do to ourselves what all the wackos and terrorists in the world can only dream of doing to us.
Last edited by Imaginos1892 on Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by Eyal   » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:23 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:Tell the news media to STOP saying that this or that group of mass murderers 'takes credit' or 'claims responsibility' for the atrocity du jour. The correct wording is ADMITS GUILT!

Don't grant them any respect. Condemn them as the chickenshits that they are, call them out for murdering the helpless, hiding behind the innocent, and running away from anyone who can stand up to them.
———————————
Terrorists and wacko nut jobs can't threaten our way of life or change who we are. Only we can do that. If we surrender to fear, if we give up our freedom for an illusion of safety, we do to ourselves what all the wackos and terrorists in the world can only dream of doing to us.


It would be inaccurate because they're not always guilty. There have been plenty of instances where terrorist organizations claimed to be behind attacks they were only tangentially responsible for, if at all.
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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by Imaginos1892   » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:50 am

Imaginos1892
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Location: San Diego, California, USA

Eyal wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:Tell the news media to STOP saying that this or that gang of mass murderers 'takes credit' or 'claims responsibility' for the atrocity du jour. The correct wording is ADMITS GUILT!

Don't grant them any respect. Condemn them as the chickenshits that they are, call them out for murdering the helpless, hiding behind the innocent, and running away from anyone who can stand up to them.
———————————
Terrorists and wacko nut jobs can't threaten our way of life or change who we are. Only we can do that. If we surrender to fear, if we give up our freedom for an illusion of safety, we do to ourselves what all the wackos and terrorists in the world can only dream of doing to us.


It would be inaccurate because they're not always guilty. There have been plenty of instances where terrorist organizations claimed to be behind attacks they were only tangentially responsible for, if at all.

They are still claiming GUILT. They should accept the appropriate punishment, too.
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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by dscott8   » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:59 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:Tell the news media to STOP saying that this or that gang of mass murderers 'takes credit' or 'claims responsibility' for the atrocity du jour. The correct wording is ADMITS GUILT!

Don't grant them any respect. Condemn them as the chickenshits that they are, call them out for murdering the helpless, hiding behind the innocent, and running away from anyone who can stand up to them.
———————————
Terrorists and wacko nut jobs can't threaten our way of life or change who we are. Only we can do that. If we surrender to fear, if we give up our freedom for an illusion of safety, we do to ourselves what all the wackos and terrorists in the world can only dream of doing to us.


Good point. A lot can be done with the way these attacks are reported. Emphasize the good, like the Brits' resilience and community helpfulness in the recent attacks, or the fact that imams have pledged to deny the London Bridge attackers religious burial rites. Yes, label their guilt as such and call them out for the murderers that they are.
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Re: If what you're doing doesn't work....
Post by robert132   » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:09 pm

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Annachie wrote:
The recent fatwa out of Pakistan declaring suicide bombing haram is a good start.

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Another "good thing" is the refusal by 150(?) Imams in Britain to conduct Muslim funeral rites for the London Bridge terrorists.

IIRC (and I may be wrong) if the proper rites are not done prior to sunset of the day of death, unless they CANNOT be done because of inability because of location or other uncontrollable circumstances, the dead do not go to paradise.

For Imams to REFUSE to conduct the rites even though there really is nothing preventing them means no Paradise and no 72 or however many eager houris.

I'm thinking that if this sticks this might, just maybe, put a crimp in their recruiting.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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