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When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspiracy?

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When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspiracy?
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:12 pm

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If not... you know.... treason?


Now Nunes, the chair of the House Intelligence committee which is *supposed* to be investigating this issue, is actively obstructing it and not even being coy about it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-t ... 6Z2TZ?il=0

He's refusing to share information with the intel committee so it can do it's oversight job, while sharing info with the Trump White House on those same findings. He's not some journalist protecting a source, he's heading the OVERSIGHT BODY whose job it is to evaluate this data. He has zero grounds for refusing to allow any of them to see it.... or for sharing it with the subject of his supposed oversight!

He's also cancelling hearings rather than allow testimony from any more government officials which the Trump White House doesn't want talking.

So we have a Trump loyalist who was part of his transition team actively and blatantly obstructing and deliberately undermining the investigation into the intervention in the election by a foreign power which was reported by US intelligence services. And doing so so blatantly that even some of the more integrity-possessing Republicans in the House and Senate are starting to cry foul.


Hopefully the Senate can get its crap together and do its job, or you know all those posts that said "hey don't worry, Trump can't do too much damage because checks and balances!"

Kiss that idea goodbye.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by dscott8   » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:13 am

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With all the maneuvering & obfuscation going on, it's going to take time to bring everything to light. The Trump administration is doing everything it can, in its own incompetent way, to fuzz the picture & shove it to the back burner. My greatest hope is that some key player in all this will go to Congress and agree to testify in return for immunity from prosecution. I'd gladly give one subordinate a walk in return for seeing Trump impeached and convicted of treason.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:32 am

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dscott8 wrote:With all the maneuvering & obfuscation going on, it's going to take time to bring everything to light. The Trump administration is doing everything it can, in its own incompetent way, to fuzz the picture & shove it to the back burner. My greatest hope is that some key player in all this will go to Congress and agree to testify in return for immunity from prosecution. I'd gladly give one subordinate a walk in return for seeing Trump impeached and convicted of treason.


I'm still completely undecided on whether Trump himself knew anything about it.

On the one hand he's so self involved and entitled he wouldn't think anything of Russia helping him win an election. It would be just a sign of how great and deserving he was in his mind. And there is his absolutely *bizarre* repeated deference to and defense of Russia and Putin.


On the other, he's a fucking clueless idiot who easily could have been blind to what his entire campaign was pulling right under his nose. And just keeps defending Russia and Putin because they keep flattering him and that's all it takes to manipulate him.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:39 pm

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And drip, drip, drip...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/poli ... /99829576/

So as widely suspected, Nunes' grandstanding media stunt last week trying to give cover to the White House from his own investigation was coordinated with White House officials. After both the FBI and the NSA refute Trump's bullshit at Nunes' committee hearing and state there is no evidence backing his wiretapping claim... the White House provides Nunes with reports that had nothing to do with either the Russia situation OR Trump's crazy "Obama wiretapped me" twitter conspiracy ranting.

Nunes immediately runs out to give a press conference without talking to any other member of his oversight committee to make vague pronouncements about Trump admin officials being caught up in "incidentally collections" to try to cast confusion over whether they were wiretapped (they were not, but they seemed to spend an unusual amount of time talking to legitimate targets of surveillance)

Nunes refuses to tell anyone where he got the info or to share it with the rest of the committee, prolonging the confusion and creating a giant distraction while he simultaneously effectively brings the entire House investigation into the Russia situation to a screeching halt cancelling hearings and preventing any further almost certainly damaging to the White House public testimony from other officials.


This is clear collusion between the person who is supposed to be running oversight and the object of his oversight. He needs to damn well go.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by dscott8   » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:36 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
I'm still completely undecided on whether Trump himself knew anything about it.

On the one hand he's so self involved and entitled he wouldn't think anything of Russia helping him win an election. It would be just a sign of how great and deserving he was in his mind. And there is his absolutely *bizarre* repeated deference to and defense of Russia and Putin.


On the other, he's a fucking clueless idiot who easily could have been blind to what his entire campaign was pulling right under his nose. And just keeps defending Russia and Putin because they keep flattering him and that's all it takes to manipulate him.


I suspect Trump may have seen what was happening through the distorted lens of his own self-image. He would have seen support from a world leader, even Putin, as a justified tribute to his own greatness. Having been the CEO of a privately held company, surrounded by yes-men and unaccustomed to being questioned or challenged, he would not be able to grasp the concept that public office has limits -- even the Presidency, a job that he sees as the "boss of all bosses", not as a steward of the public's interests.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:54 pm

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So, it's been almost a year since I asked the question in the OP.

In that time we have learned (this is just a SAMPLE)...


The admin was lying *constantly* about meetings between many campaign personnel and the Russians.

We learned of the Trump Tower meeting.

Flynn and Papadopolous have pled guilty about their lies about Russian contacts and are cooperating witnesses.

Manafort and Gates are under indictment.

Trump has refused to implement legally mandated sanctions on the Russians. And his administration has actively sabotaged other required measures like assembling the oligarchs index that Congress required of them.

He has constant contacts with Putin that the American people learn about not from their own press (not even Fox News) but from Russian media. (I believe I am aware of eight instances of this happening. No, that is not normal)

He snuck in a Russian intelligence director who is banned from entry to the US under other sanctions that actually did get implemented before he took office.

Trump loyalists in Congress and the Senate are manufacturing spurious claims of wrongdoing at the FBI to try to undermine an ongoing investigation into all of this.. including one particular loyalist who was supposed to have recused himself from this issue after he got caught conspiring with the White House to do the exact same thing in early 2017 as detailed up above in this thread.





And now this past week, EVERY SINGLE INTELLIGENCE HEAD in the US government... TRUMP APPOINTED officials... got up in front of the Senate and testified under oath that:

1. Russia considers their election interference in 2016 a success.

2. They have every intention of doing it again.

3. The president has given them no specific direction to counter it beyond basically watching and seeing what the Russians are doing.


So........ when does any of this become a problem Trump supporters?
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by pappilon   » Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:13 am

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gcomeau wrote: So........ when does any of this become a problem Trump supporters?


None Dare Call It Treason

Collusion, Obstruction of Justice, Criminal Stupidity, Gross Egotism, Delusions of Apotheosis, ... perhaps. Treason is an entirely different kettle of very well legally defined kettle of fish.

Trump is The Decisionator, he makes all the decisions, nothing happens without his approval. At least that's the attitude of several federal appellate judges. He goes against his [so called] advisors when they do not agree with his decisions.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by The E   » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:15 am

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It's a truism in crimonology that the most successful criminals will never, can never be charged for their crimes, because they become CEOs or politicians.
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:20 am

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Wait! What!? You mean we weren't always calling the Russian thing a criminal conspiracy???

Well I didn't get the memo.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: When do we just call the Russia thing a criminal conspir
Post by pappilon   » Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:53 am

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cthia wrote:Wait! What!? You mean we weren't always calling the Russian thing a criminal conspiracy???

Well I didn't get the memo.


Some of us always were; some of us never will. Some on this forum will defend Trump even as he goes down in flames (wishful thinking on my part).

And when Nixon was president we called all these firings and resignations until Robert Bork's number was called "The Saturday Night Massacre." Now under Trump we just :roll: .

:x :x
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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