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What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.

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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Joat42   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:46 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Can anyone think of a legitimate reason for redacting almost the entirety of the meeting minutes on planning for the presidential transition in the event Trump loses the election?

Anyone?

https://www.govexec.com/management/2020 ... on/167073/

Rather irrelevant. At (what is it...?) noon?? on January 20, the person who is legally elected as the President will be sworn in as the President of the US. That is an event that nobody can stop. Military? Nope. If a former President attempts to give an order to the Military after noon on the 20th, the Military will just not obey it. Nor will the Secret Service. Nor will ANY part of the Executive branch. I don't understand why Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and their minions keep making such a big deal about this - they KNOW the rules. The unbreakable rules. Actually, I DO understand why. They're lying. They're pandering lies out of whole cloth to an ignorant electorate.

Please specify what lies you are referring to.

---
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by n7axw   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:26 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Can anyone think of a legitimate reason for redacting almost the entirety of the meeting minutes on planning for the presidential transition in the event Trump loses the election?

Anyone?

https://www.govexec.com/management/2020 ... on/167073/

Rather irrelevant. At (what is it...?) noon?? on January 20, the person who is legally elected as the President will be sworn in as the President of the US. That is an event that nobody can stop. Military? Nope. If a former President attempts to give an order to the Military after noon on the 20th, the Military will just not obey it. Nor will the Secret Service. Nor will ANY part of the Executive branch. I don't understand why Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and their minions keep making such a big deal about this - they KNOW the rules. The unbreakable rules. Actually, I DO understand why. They're lying. They're pandering lies out of whole cloth to an ignorant electorate.


From your lips to God's ears. Actually, Weber Fan, we on the left are afraid that the rules won't be kept. Trump and his cronies have not been good with rules. Just thinking about it, I can come up with goodness how many rules that he has either ignored or deliberately broken. Why would we believe he wouldn't try to make his way around this one? But I hope you are right.


As for accusations of lying, you right wingers are living in glass houses and shouldn't be throwing stones. That is not directed personally at you, by the way. The fact that we all (including me) almost automatically assume that the other side is not telling the truth is what has gone wrong with our public discourse.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by WeberFan   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:13 am

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Joat42 wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Rather irrelevant. At (what is it...?) noon?? on January 20, the person who is legally elected as the President will be sworn in as the President of the US. That is an event that nobody can stop. Military? Nope. If a former President attempts to give an order to the Military after noon on the 20th, the Military will just not obey it. Nor will the Secret Service. Nor will ANY part of the Executive branch. I don't understand why Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and their minions keep making such a big deal about this - they KNOW the rules. The unbreakable rules. Actually, I DO understand why. They're lying. They're pandering lies out of whole cloth to an ignorant electorate.

Please specify what lies you are referring to.


OK. Just three examples.
"Bernie Sanders fears President Donald Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses reelection and is calling on Congress and the media to take action to prepare for that scenario now, he said in an interview with POLITICO." Politico article by Holly Otterbein, 9/4/2020. One would THINK that a sitting US Senator would know better...
""I think it’s a fair point to raise as to whether or not if he loses he’s going to go quietly or not, and we have to be ready for that,” Mr Trump’s defeated 2016 opponent said in a television interview on Monday night." The Independent (UK) reporting of a Hillary Clinton interview on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. One would think that a former US Senator and Secretary of State would know better...
"But, the former vice president said, he is "absolutely convinced" the military would escort Trump from the White House if he loses the election but refuses to leave office." CNN reporting 6/11/2020, article by Sarah Mucha and Eric Bradner. One would think that a guy who graduated from college, became a lawyer, then immediately went to work for the Government (first County Council, then US Senate, then VP - has ONLY had Government jobs) would know better...
This is fear mongering. Plain and simple. It's dishonest, (IMHO) unethical, and dishonorable.

I am independent. I see absolute buffoonery on both sides and I call it out when I see it.

This recent article in the Atlantic citing anonymous sources. Who owns the Atlantic? A MAJOR Democratic contributor (over $1.5MM to date). The owner is very close to the person who authored the article. Within hours of the article's release, a PAC associated with the owner was pushing related spam. Personally, I believe there was pre-coordination for a made-up story citing non-existent sources (but if the sources go on the record, I will WILLINGLY and EMPHATICALLY retract that statement). I believe we'll see a LOT more stories just like the Atlantic story - citing anonymous sources of course - between now and the election.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Joat42   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:33 am

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Joat42 wrote:
WeberFan wrote:Rather irrelevant. At (what is it...?) noon?? on January 20, the person who is legally elected as the President will be sworn in as the President of the US. That is an event that nobody can stop. Military? Nope. If a former President attempts to give an order to the Military after noon on the 20th, the Military will just not obey it. Nor will the Secret Service. Nor will ANY part of the Executive branch. I don't understand why Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and their minions keep making such a big deal about this - they KNOW the rules. The unbreakable rules. Actually, I DO understand why. They're lying. They're pandering lies out of whole cloth to an ignorant electorate.

Please specify what lies you are referring to.

WeberFan wrote:OK. Just three examples.
"Bernie Sanders fears President Donald Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses reelection and is calling on Congress and the media to take action to prepare for that scenario now, he said in an interview with POLITICO." Politico article by Holly Otterbein, 9/4/2020. One would THINK that a sitting US Senator would know better...
""I think it’s a fair point to raise as to whether or not if he loses he’s going to go quietly or not, and we have to be ready for that,” Mr Trump’s defeated 2016 opponent said in a television interview on Monday night." The Independent (UK) reporting of a Hillary Clinton interview on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. One would think that a former US Senator and Secretary of State would know better...
"But, the former vice president said, he is "absolutely convinced" the military would escort Trump from the White House if he loses the election but refuses to leave office." CNN reporting 6/11/2020, article by Sarah Mucha and Eric Bradner. One would think that a guy who graduated from college, became a lawyer, then immediately went to work for the Government (first County Council, then US Senate, then VP - has ONLY had Government jobs) would know better...
This is fear mongering. Plain and simple. It's dishonest, (IMHO) unethical, and dishonorable.

I am independent. I see absolute buffoonery on both sides and I call it out when I see it.

This recent article in the Atlantic citing anonymous sources. Who owns the Atlantic? A MAJOR Democratic contributor (over $1.5MM to date). The owner is very close to the person who authored the article. Within hours of the article's release, a PAC associated with the owner was pushing related spam. Personally, I believe there was pre-coordination for a made-up story citing non-existent sources (but if the sources go on the record, I will WILLINGLY and EMPHATICALLY retract that statement). I believe we'll see a LOT more stories just like the Atlantic story - citing anonymous sources of course - between now and the election.

An opinion isn't a lie - it's an opinion. And considering what Trump has said and done, it's not unreasonable to fear that he will try to make the transition of the presidency as difficult as possible if he loses the election.

And if you are referring to the Atlantic article about Trump calling dead soldiers and veterans for losers and suckers I wouldn't at all be surprised for it to be true - because Trump uses those disparagements regularly. I don't know how much weight we should put on one such statement, because if Trump really said it in that context it only tells us because of his narcissism a lot of people doesn't really matter to him - regardless if they are veterans, dead soldiers or Joe Schmoo on the street.

What people should be incensed about is Trump's absolute disdain and name-calling of people, dead or alive. That he through his presidency more or less normalized that behavior is astounding. If we are going to compare the level of "buffoonery on both sides", the Democrats can't even touch the level the current administration and their sycophants managed to reach. It's the sad truth about politics, when a race to the bottom has started, it's hard to get off that train.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by The E   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:07 am

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WeberFan wrote:This is fear mongering. Plain and simple. It's dishonest, (IMHO) unethical, and dishonorable.


Ahh, it's "fear mongering" to prepare for the possibility that the most blatantly dishonest President in recent history, who has a history of trying to turn the US into one of those dictatorships he loves so much, who has made it his mission to break with every tradition he can find, who has already started spreading a Dolchstosslegende about how the election will be manipulated and invalid, who has idly speculated about how he'll get a third term since, due to the impeachment proceedings, his first one apparently didn't count will not just gracefully accept a loss at the voting booth and just quietly leave the oval office on January 20th?

Interesting.

I mean, if that's fear mongering, what about the predictions that Donald Trump, whose businesses have a history of racial discrimination, would make race relations in the US worse? I remember those being a thing during his campaign in 2016 and after his election; clearly those must have been baseless fearmongering too from your point of view....
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by n7axw   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:16 am

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I don't blame Weber Fan for wanting to deny the story, but the thing that gives it legs is that is consistent with things that Trump has said in the past about McCain and his treatment of gold star families. Were it not for that the story would seem outrageous.

As for the complaint about anonymous sources, I sympathize with that, but I fear it's an unfortunate necessity for reporting out the news. Woodward and Bernstein's reporting out their Watergate stories was grounded in anonymous sources. We just learned who "Deep Throat" was a few years ago.

The charge that various networks and news outlets are coordinating their stories doesn't have legs. You would have to believe that Fox was in on it too. And the Fox reporter involved has a good reputation. It was a bit funny watching Fox twisting themselves inside out trying to deal with the story over the weekend.

Finally Trumps denial was weak. However loudly shouted out, he has his well established reputation as a liar to overcome which is unlikely at this point. It's just easier to believe the reporting however anonymous the sources might be.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:36 pm

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WeberFan wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Please specify what lies you are referring to.


OK. Just three examples.
"Bernie Sanders fears President Donald Trump will refuse to leave office if he loses reelection and is calling on Congress and the media to take action to prepare for that scenario now, he said in an interview with POLITICO." Politico article by Holly Otterbein, 9/4/2020. One would THINK that a sitting US Senator would know better...


Know better than what? To be worried that a person whose role models are dictators and who has spent months and months casting doubt in every way he can on the integrity of the election with baseless conspiracy theories and who has openly refused to say he will accept the results of that election might try to retain power if he loses?

You were asked for an example of a lie, not an example of a well founded concern.


""I think it’s a fair point to raise as to whether or not if he loses he’s going to go quietly or not, and we have to be ready for that,” Mr Trump’s defeated 2016 opponent said in a television interview on Monday night." The Independent (UK) reporting of a Hillary Clinton interview on the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. One would think that a former US Senator and Secretary of State would know better...


See above.

"But, the former vice president said, he is "absolutely convinced" the military would escort Trump from the White House if he loses the election but refuses to leave office." CNN reporting 6/11/2020, article by Sarah Mucha and Eric Bradner. One would think that a guy who graduated from college, became a lawyer, then immediately went to work for the Government (first County Council, then US Senate, then VP - has ONLY had Government jobs) would know better...
This is fear mongering. Plain and simple. It's dishonest, (IMHO) unethical, and dishonorable.


It is absolutely none of the above.

This recent article in the Atlantic citing anonymous sources. Who owns the Atlantic? A MAJOR Democratic contributor (over $1.5MM to date). The owner is very close to the person who authored the article. Within hours of the article's release, a PAC associated with the owner was pushing related spam. Personally, I believe there was pre-coordination for a made-up story citing non-existent sources (but if the sources go on the record, I will WILLINGLY and EMPHATICALLY retract that statement). I believe we'll see a LOT more stories just like the Atlantic story - citing anonymous sources of course - between now and the election.


That reporting has since been confirmed independently by every major news organization including even Fox News. Not to mention it being 100% consistent with the entirety of Trump's public record of conduct.

The issue here is not anonymous sources, or untrustworthy news stories. It is you not wanting to believe what is being reported so searching for excuses not to.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Daryl   » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:48 am

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I read something yesterday that finally explains this aspect of politics to me,
"Trump is a (insert bad word). So what?"
To people like me, having a leader with no morals or ethics is totally intolerable. However there are many who simply don't care, as long as they aren't personally negatively impacted.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Joat42   » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:44 am

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Daryl wrote:I read something yesterday that finally explains this aspect of politics to me,
"Trump is a (insert bad word). So what?"
To people like me, having a leader with no morals or ethics is totally intolerable. However there are many who simply don't care, as long as they aren't personally negatively impacted.

What these people don't realize it's going to impact them at some point anyway.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:51 am

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A question from someone across the Pond.

Does Trump's apparent nomination of Judge Barbara Lagoa to take the seat left by the unfortunate demise of Judge Ginsburg count as a good or bad move?
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