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What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.

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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:23 pm

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Seriously, you should NOT use Honorverse analogues to analyze real-world politics. Honorverse is a work of fiction; it is NOT accurate representation of real world processes & effects.


I often wonder if that is true...
the best lie is built around a core of the truth... and fiction is a lie at its' basic layer, but it, like a fable can be used to teach a moral lesson in a way that cannot be matched in the daily headlines.

We are drawn to the character of persons in the novel, we either like them and cheer them on, or we fear or hat the prospect the villain will succeed in their nefarious plans.

I have studied political science and anthropology for most of my adult life and see wonderful parables presented in a way that are more acceptable because the alien did it.
We are more likely to believe that the cabinet of Baron of High Ridge would be corrupt, and that they would jeopardize the well being of the nation they are supposed to be serving because we have had occasional examples of such corruption in our own governments...
(why, there could even be such an example now) ... like Michael Janvier, there is an arrogance and hubris about them and as has been proved time and again "crime doesn't pay" enough.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Daryl   » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:36 pm

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Michael didn't mention the Honorverse in any way. I did, but in reverse to what you are alluding to, in that you can see that RFC drew his universe building concepts from reality.

Dilandu wrote:
Michael Everett wrote:I look forwards to the dawn of the People's United Federated Republican States of Democratic America (as peopled by the God-fearing Gun-toting Citizens).

On a more serious note, America is becoming more isolationist. If it continues that way, it'll end up pulling its military out of Europe, South Korea and all the other places, indicating that it is dropping its self-appointed role as World's Policeman (which the other countries let it have because that role is just so expensive...)

So, if America turns in its badge, who will take over?
- Russia? :lol: As if. Russia is riddled with corruption and has an economy smaller than the UK. If not for its exports bringing in money, it would have imploded by now.
- China? Very unlikely. Sure, they'll try to expand, but China's cultural foundation means that it doesn't innovate well and reacts badly when things don't go as planned. China's got the manpower, but if they try to expand via conquest, the resultant internal tensions will cause a huge amount of trouble for them, especially since they find it hard to understand/predict the actions of other cultures.
- India? Yeeeeee-nope. Their caste system is still holding them back and as for their violence issues... sexual violence against women is still noticeably high in India. They can't even maintain their British-Empire-Bequeathed infrastructure properly, much less expand it outwards.
-The European Union? :lol: Hahahahaha! :lol: Yeah, right. :roll: The EU is in the middle of a slow-motion implosion. The whole thing was a screw-up from the start and right now, they're re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic and the internal pressures they thought they could simply legislate into unimportance froth up and start popping the corks. The Right Wing parties are gaining headway in Germany. That alone indicates things are effed up.
- Australia? Um... unlikely. Sure, they've got experience in dealing with deadly situations, but... my apologies to the Australians on the Board, but Australia doesn't really have the military muscle needed.
- Israel? Well, if America withdraws support, what'll be left of Israel and the surrounding countries will be a series of radioactive craters as part of Israel's You attacked first so I'm taking you down with me. And yes, it will the the countries around Israel that attack first.
- The UK? At the present time... very, very unlikely. We're still hamstrung by the Human Rights Laws and the lawyers seeking to profit from that by suing our Armed Forces on behalf of Terrorists who pretended to have been tortured by British Forces that in many cases, were provably at the other end of the country from them! Sure, the UK punches above its weight politically, but much of that is due to the Commonwealth and the links forged during the long-gone days of the British Empire.

If the USA goes fully isolationist, things will get... interesting.
Look to the history Japan to see how Isolationism can leave a country way behind everyone else.


The point about China is absolutely wrong. China is aiming exactly for that; to replace the USA as the world's dominant military, industrial and scientific power.

Other points are also highly disputable.

Seriously, you should NOT use Honorverse analogues to analyze real-world politics. Honorverse is a work of fiction; it is NOT accurate representation of real world processes & effects.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:46 am

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Daryl wrote:Michael didn't mention the Honorverse in any way.

Michael Everett wrote:To put it in terms most here can understand, the European Union is going the way of the Solarian League and the UK is taking the Maya Option.

I kinda did, as you can see, just not in the post that Dilandu quoted. It was the post before that, the one where I linked to the Chicken Run clip...
Sorry Daryl, you may owe Dilandu a small apology.
Dilandu, you may wish to be more careful with your quotes.

But I still sand by my assertion that the EU as a political entity was doomed from the word go. It makes Frankenstein's Monster look neat and tidy by comparison... Far too many compromises and the ignoring of rules. America works as a Federation of States because they generally had the same basic cultural assumptions in common.
Europe... not so much.
~~~~~~

I can't write anywhere near as well as Weber
But I try nonetheless, And even do my own artwork.

(Now on Twitter)and mentioned by RFC!
Animal Crossing Dreams at 6E00-00F5-2891
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:20 am

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Small apology for Dilandu. Sorry.
In regard to the EU, I can remember when it was formed being quite busy and not taking the time to research it, but being impressed at how they obviously had managed to get all those countries to convert to the same monetary system, in order to have the same currency.
Except that they didn't. As an economics lay man, I never dreamed that they would be so stupid as to all have the same currency without aligning their financial rules.
At one point before this I drew a million Lira out from an ATM in Rome, then they went to the Euro. Ireland had the Punt before the Euro, as in "have a Punt on this". Apparently it was because it rhymed with bank manager.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:54 am

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Ok, I know most of you disagreed with me regarding her decision to wear those damn shoes upstream.

Now, celebrities are protesting Melania Trump’s decision to wear a ZARA jacket with the words ‘I REALLY DON’T CARE DO U?’ emblazoned across the back while she visited a child detention centre.

Could she at least pretend she cares? At least pretend she has her head in the game?

I really want to like her, but I really don't think she cares. Her husband should have questioned that jacket.

If you are the First Lady, it's all about portraying the right image, respect and decorum.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:53 am

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Leaked audio from one of Trump's child detention centers reveals that officials there are threatening children with negative consequences to their cases and their ability to be reunited with their parents if they communicate with the press and tell then anything about what is happening to them.


A reminder: This is happening in the United States of America.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Jun 26, 2018 11:16 am

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Trump publicly called for the denial of Due Process in immigration cases.


You cannot remove Due Process from only some people. You remove it from anyone, you remove it for everyone. Because ANYONE can just be dragged out on the claim they don't have a right to it and nobody will review that claim because NO DUE PROCESS.


I leave it as an exercise to the reader whether Trump called for this out of total ignorance of how the laws work or any concept of the basic principles of justice... or if it was a deliberate attempt to further undermine Judicial checks on his authority... or both.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Tue Jun 26, 2018 12:38 pm

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gcomeau wrote:Trump publicly called for the denial of Due Process in immigration cases.


You cannot remove Due Process from only some people. You remove it from anyone, you remove it for everyone. Because ANYONE can just be dragged out on the claim they don't have a right to it and nobody will review that claim because NO DUE PROCESS.


I leave it as an exercise to the reader whether Trump called for this out of total ignorance of how the laws work or any concept of the basic principles of justice... or if it was a deliberate attempt to further undermine Judicial checks on his authority... or both.



"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Except when I disagree with it... then it's fake news
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by smr   » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:19 am

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A person enters the country illegally and should we not deport them within 24 hours! Happens in most countries when someone enters illegally they are deported or jailed and then deported.

If they are applying for political asylum, they can ask for Asylum at the legal border entry point not after they have been picked up by ice or border patrol.

The reason gcomeau agrues that they are being denied due pricess because we have a broken immigration system. We should be deporting within 24 hours of being swept up providing they are only guilty of illegally entering the US.

Just remember that Trump will be in office for 6 1/2 more years. The water is starting to overflow from the sink basin and speed at which the leaks are coming are accelerating. Drip! Drip! Drip!
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by The E   » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:13 am

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smr wrote:A person enters the country illegally and should we not deport them within 24 hours! Happens in most countries when someone enters illegally they are deported or jailed and then deported.


Who makes the determination that someone has entered the country illegally?
Under what authority is that determination made? What's the standard of proof required? What happens when you accidentally deport a legal resident?

The reason gcomeau agrues that they are being denied due pricess because we have a broken immigration system. We should be deporting within 24 hours of being swept up providing they are only guilty of illegally entering the US.


No, the reason is your idiot President talking about how immigrants should not receive due process, but do carry on.
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