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What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.

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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:44 pm

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smr wrote:Of course you not controlled by the Russians till they cut off the oil and natural gas over some dispute.

Now, why is Germany not paying 2% of GDP for military spending that was agreed to by all parties. Hey the US spends 60% of the military budget on NATO. The facts we should close all those bases in Germany and put these troops on the Southern US border. Cheaper and more economical for the US.


Just a quick note for your information smr. The mutual defense clause of NATO has been invoked once in it's entire history.

After 9/11.

Do you know how many NATO troops died since then coming to America's call just so you could stomp around here throwing a tantrum because you want them to spend more on their military for reasons I guarantee you can't rationally explain? (Hint, don't say it's so America can spend less, those two thing have NOTHING to do with each other. NATO isn't some kind of communal military spending piggy bank.)

And as for withdrawing troops, you do realize it wasn't Germany that asked for those troops to be there right? The US WANTED to station those troops there. America's ability to get other countries to agree to basing rights for it's troops to allow it to project force around the world is a major strategic advantage. Those basing rights are favors FROM Germany TO the United States. So you just proposed shooting the US military in the foot out of spite. Or rather, you are blindly following Trump's lead in shooting the US military in the foot and undermining America's global military strategic advantages.

Seriously, friendly advice... just be quiet until you know what you're talking about. (Advice it would be nice if Trump was also capable of following)
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by smr   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:00 pm

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Obviously you (gcomeau) have not read my posts about being isolationists and more neutral. American should have pre- positioned equipment much as we do in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I have had this position before Trump and will hold this position after Trump. TheE and I have had many disputes about before and will again in the future.

Image

gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:Of course you not controlled by the Russians till they cut off the oil and natural gas over some dispute.

Now, why is Germany not paying 2% of GDP for military spending that was agreed to by all parties. Hey the US spends 60% of the military budget on NATO. The facts we should close all those bases in Germany and put these troops on the Southern US border. Cheaper and more economical for the US.


Just a quick note for your information smr. The mutual defense clause of NATO has been invoked once in it's entire history.

After 9/11.

Do you know how many NATO troops died since then coming to America's call just so you could stomp around here throwing a tantrum because you want them to spend more on their military for reasons I guarantee you can't rationally explain? (Hint, don't say it's so America can spend less, those two thing have NOTHING to do with each other. NATO isn't some kind of communal military spending piggy bank.)

And as for withdrawing troops, you do realize it wasn't Germany that asked for those troops to be there right? The US WANTED to station those troops there. America's ability to get other countries to agree to basing rights for it's troops to allow it to project force around the world is a major strategic advantage. Those basing rights are favors FROM Germany TO the United States. So you just proposed shooting the US military in the foot out of spite. Or rather, you are blindly following Trump's lead in shooting the US military in the foot and undermining America's global military strategic advantages.

Seriously, friendly advice... just be quiet until you know what you're talking about. (Advice it would be nice if Trump was also capable of following)
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:26 pm

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smr wrote:Obviously you (gcomeau) have not read my posts about being isolationists and more neutral. American should have pre- positioned equipment much as we do in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I have had this position before Trump and will hold this position after Trump. TheE and I have had many disputes about before and will again in the future.


Oh look what isn't there... any rational explanation of why you are complaining about European military spending levels.

And how exactly do you pre-position materials if the countries you want to pre-position them in tell you to screw off because you've completely alienated them? And where do you pre-position them *without* the accompanying troops? You think they're just going to leave military hardware laying around in storage lockers in foreign countries or something???
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:13 pm

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Well it looks like the President of the United States just gave an exclusive interview to a right wing UK tabloid newspaper in which he actively threatens that if the UK maintains too close a tie with Europe after Brexit he will spike US/UK trade deal prospects.(After spinning some bullshit Monday morning quarterback story about how he told May how to do Brexit right and she didn't listen)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6766531/t ... -deal-off/

To repeat.... that is the president of the United States THREATENING the UK not to maintain unacceptably close ties with EUROPE.

But yeah, we have nothing to worry about that his next step is for a nice intimate meeting with the authoritarian strongman running Russia that he so often fawns all over who attacked the US elections to get him into the White House.



Couple other highlights of the Sun's reporting of the interview he gave them...


* Accused EU leaders of destroying its culture and identity by allowing in millions of migrants (because you know, he's super NOT racist. He's like the most not racist person in the whole wide world)

* Maintained he would keep ties with Russian tyrant Vladimir Putin despite the Salisbury Novichok poisonings
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by The E   » Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:37 am

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smr wrote:Of course you not controlled by the Russians till they cut off the oil and natural gas over some dispute.


It's almost, almost, as if you didn't read what I wrote.
Even if Russia were to cut off their supplies, we would be fine for up to half a year at current usage levels. We are also Germany, and thus pretty rich; we can find others to sell to us.
Russia, on the other hand, is out several billion in hard currency that they now have to get elsewhere. A boycott like that, to put it simply, hurts Russia more than it does us; there's a 6 billion euro trade surplus they enjoy that would be gone.

Now, why is Germany not paying 2% of GDP for military spending that was agreed to by all parties.


We are doing what we agreed to, which was to raise military spending to that level over the coming years. We were never asked, nor did we offer, to immediately raise spending to the 2% required.
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:17 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:Of course you not controlled by the Russians till they cut off the oil and natural gas over some dispute.

Now, why is Germany not paying 2% of GDP for military spending that was agreed to by all parties. Hey the US spends 60% of the military budget on NATO. The facts we should close all those bases in Germany and put these troops on the Southern US border. Cheaper and more economical for the US.


Just a quick note for your information smr. The mutual defense clause of NATO has been invoked once in it's entire history.

After 9/11.

Do you know how many NATO troops died since then coming to America's call just so you could stomp around here throwing a tantrum because you want them to spend more on their military for reasons I guarantee you can't rationally explain? (Hint, don't say it's so America can spend less, those two thing have NOTHING to do with each other. NATO isn't some kind of communal military spending piggy bank.)

And as for withdrawing troops, you do realize it wasn't Germany that asked for those troops to be there right? The US WANTED to station those troops there. America's ability to get other countries to agree to basing rights for it's troops to allow it to project force around the world is a major strategic advantage. Those basing rights are favors FROM Germany TO the United States. So you just proposed shooting the US military in the foot out of spite. Or rather, you are blindly following Trump's lead in shooting the US military in the foot and undermining America's global military strategic advantages.

Seriously, friendly advice... just be quiet until you know what you're talking about. (Advice it would be nice if Trump was also capable of following)



Great info and very good advice but... Trump has a life long history of running his mouth at full speed before he has his brain engaged...
It is who he has been not who he became on his TV show...
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:22 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:Obviously you (gcomeau) have not read my posts about being isolationists and more neutral. American should have pre- positioned equipment much as we do in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. I have had this position before Trump and will hold this position after Trump. TheE and I have had many disputes about before and will again in the future.


Oh look what isn't there... any rational explanation of why you are complaining about European military spending levels.

And how exactly do you pre-position materials if the countries you want to pre-position them in tell you to screw off because you've completely alienated them? And where do you pre-position them *without* the accompanying troops? You think they're just going to leave military hardware laying around in storage lockers in foreign countries or something???


Look what is there... Oil!
Of course we will protect the oil fields in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Germany doesn't have big oil reserves so the oligarchy doesn't need to tax our middle class to pay the cost of defending them both with out dollars and our blood.
Just my 2 ₡ worth
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 am

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John Cleese wrote:My American friends are asking me about President Trumps’s observation that the British ‘like him’

I regret this is quite unfounded

The explanation for this canard is that Trump is pronoid

Pronoid is the opposite of paranoid. A paranoid person thinks, without any basis in reality, that everybody is out to get them. A pronoid person is someone who thinks, without any
basis in reality, that everybody likes them

The fact is that the British loathe Donald Trump

This is because he is the polar opposite of a ‘ Gentleman ‘, who has qualities the British admire. A fine example is Gareth Southgate

To the British, a ‘ Gentleman ' is a man who is modest, well-mannered, self deprecating, quietly intelligent, considerate of other people’s feeling, and well-informed.

He is not vulgar, inflated, vain, boastful, noisily ignorant, sleazy and common as muck

I hope this clears up any confusion
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:57 am

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From Facebook.


The best, most cogent and elegantly simple explanation into the inexplicably destructive negotiating processes of the president,by Prof. David Honig of Indiana University.

Everybody I know should read this accurate and enlightening piece...

“I’m going to get a little wonky and write about Donald Trump and negotiations. For those who don't know, I'm an adjunct professor at Indiana University - Robert H. McKinney School of Law and I teach negotiations. Okay, here goes.

Trump, as most of us know, is the credited author of "The Art of the Deal," a book that was actually ghost written by a man named Tony Schwartz, who was given access to Trump and wrote based upon his observations. If you've read The Art of the Deal, or if you've followed Trump lately, you'll know, even if you didn't know the label, that he sees all dealmaking as what we call "distributive bargaining."

Distributive bargaining always has a winner and a loser. It happens when there is a fixed quantity of something and two sides are fighting over how it gets distributed. Think of it as a pie and you're fighting over who gets how many pieces. In Trump's world, the bargaining was for a building, or for construction work, or subcontractors. He perceives a successful bargain as one in which there is a winner and a loser, so if he pays less than the seller wants, he wins. The more he saves the more he wins.

The other type of bargaining is called integrative bargaining. In integrative bargaining the two sides don't have a complete conflict of interest, and it is possible to reach mutually beneficial agreements. Think of it, not a single pie to be divided by two hungry people, but as a baker and a caterer negotiating over how many pies will be baked at what prices, and the nature of their ongoing relationship after this one gig is over.

The problem with Trump is that he sees only distributive bargaining in an international world that requires integrative bargaining. He can raise tariffs, but so can other countries. He can't demand they not respond. There is no defined end to the negotiation and there is no simple winner and loser. There are always more pies to be baked. Further, negotiations aren't binary. China's choices aren't (a) buy soybeans from US farmers, or (b) don't buy soybeans. They can also (c) buy soybeans from Russia, or Argentina, or Brazil, or Canada, etc. That completely strips the distributive bargainer of his power to win or lose, to control the negotiation.

One of the risks of distributive bargaining is bad will. In a one-time distributive bargain, e.g. negotiating with the cabinet maker in your casino about whether you're going to pay his whole bill or demand a discount, you don't have to worry about your ongoing credibility or the next deal. If you do that to the cabinet maker, you can bet he won't agree to do the cabinets in your next casino, and you're going to have to find another cabinet maker.

There isn't another Canada.

So when you approach international negotiation, in a world as complex as ours, with integrated economies and multiple buyers and sellers, you simply must approach them through integrative bargaining. If you attempt distributive bargaining, success is impossible. And we see that already.

Trump has raised tariffs on China. China responded, in addition to raising tariffs on US goods, by dropping all its soybean orders from the US and buying them from Russia. The effect is not only to cause tremendous harm to US farmers, but also to increase Russian revenue, making Russia less susceptible to sanctions and boycotts, increasing its economic and political power in the world, and reducing ours. Trump saw steel and aluminum and thought it would be an easy win, BECAUSE HE SAW ONLY STEEL AND ALUMINUM - HE SEES EVERY NEGOTIATION AS DISTRIBUTIVE. China saw it as integrative, and integrated Russia and its soybean purchase orders into a far more complex negotiation ecosystem.

Trump has the same weakness politically. For every winner there must be a loser. And that's just not how politics works, not over the long run.

For people who study negotiations, this is incredibly basic stuff, negotiations 101, definitions you learn before you even start talking about styles and tactics. And here's another huge problem for us.

Trump is utterly convinced that his experience in a closely held real estate company has prepared him to run a nation, and therefore he rejects the advice of people who spent entire careers studying the nuances of international negotiations and diplomacy. But the leaders on the other side of the table have not eschewed expertise, they have embraced it. And that means they look at Trump and, given his very limited tool chest and his blindly distributive understanding of negotiation, they know exactly what he is going to do and exactly how to respond to it.

From a professional negotiation point of view, Trump isn't even bringing checkers to a chess match. He's bringing a quarter that he insists of flipping for heads or tails, while everybody else is studying the chess board to decide whether its better to open with Najdorf or Grünfeld.”

— David Honig
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: What has Pres. Trump done wrong so far.
Post by Annachie   » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:25 am

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Jesus Christ how did he escape the Palace alive.

Not just disrespecting the Queen.
Not just disrespecting an actual veteran.
But disrespecting a woman in her 90's.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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