What has Trump done right so far?

biochem wrote:

CRC wrote:1 – Stopped Hillary Clinton from becoming President.

2 – Turned the US political system on its head.

3 – Exposed the hypocrisy of the left on multiple issue related to the Constitution – from the electoral college to the first amendment to the 4th amendment to the 9th amendment

4 – Laid bare the mainstream media’s political bias.

5 – Nominated Neal Gorsuch to SCOTUS.

6 – Exposed the Republican establishment as a bunch of rock thrower’s – not ready to enact anything.

7 – Exposed the deep state issue – can anyone say “Mandarin”?

8 – Executive order requiring every agency to establish a Regulatory Reform Task.

9 – Executive Order dealing with DoJ task forces.

10 – Executive order reviewing Dodd Frank.

11 – Executive Order lengthening the ban on Executive brank lobbyists.

12 – Executive Order for Keystone pipeline and Dakota access.

13 - Executive Order Hiring Freeze,

That depends on political leanings. The above is a conservative wish list come true.

No, not really. I would have preferred legislative action versus most of these EO's except for the EO's that get rid of the previous EO's.

I personally have a whole laundry wish list starting with Constitutional amendments on term limits, balanced budgets, then getting into legislative reforms such as civil service, procurement, immigration, etc.

A reasonable start, but except for the #1 slot, nothing of real substance as of yet...

I agree that this is a good opportunity to get rid of long institutionalised irrelevant rubbish. What I'd like to know though is how reducing taxes and increasing expenditure is going to balance the budget?
From a distance it appears Trump isn't just kicking the can further down the road, but is getting a bigger can.

Daryl wrote:I agree that this is a good opportunity to get rid of long institutionalised irrelevant rubbish. What I'd like to know though is how reducing taxes and increasing expenditure is going to balance the budget?
From a distance it appears Trump isn't just kicking the can further down the road, but is getting a bigger can.

The same question was asked of Reagan...

Bush Sr...

Bush Jr...



Don't expect an answer.

gcomeau wrote:

Daryl wrote:I agree that this is a good opportunity to get rid of long institutionalised irrelevant rubbish. What I'd like to know though is how reducing taxes and increasing expenditure is going to balance the budget?
From a distance it appears Trump isn't just kicking the can further down the road, but is getting a bigger can.

The same question was asked of Reagan...

Bush Sr...

Bush Jr...



Don't expect an answer.

Actually the same was asked of:

Carter

Reagan

Bush

Clinton

Bush

Obama

Trump

The only answer to date has been the can getting bigger and bigger (2x in the past 8 years)...with no one wanting to address the real issue - entitlements (SSI and Medicare).

Its a shame that it will probably come to an emergency situation (hyperinflation, collapse of the dollar, Russian annexation, etc.) before something is actually done...

CRC wrote:

gcomeau wrote:The same question was asked of Reagan...

Bush Sr...

Bush Jr...



Don't expect an answer.

Actually the same was asked of:

Carter

Under whom the deficit didn't really change...

Reagan

Bush

Drastically increased deficits

Clinton

Under whom the budget was in fact balanced...

Bush

Drastically increased deficits

Obama

The guy who cut a TRILLION dollars a year off the deficit WHILE dealing with the fallout from the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression...

What is it with you guys and the total inability to recognize basic economic realities under Democratic presidents? Seriously?

gcomeau wrote:

CRC wrote:
Actually the same was asked of:

Carter

Under whom the deficit didn't really change...

Reagan

Bush

Drastically increased deficits

Clinton

Under whom the budget was in fact balanced...

Bush

Drastically increased deficits

Obama

The guy who cut a TRILLION dollars a year off the deficit WHILE dealing with the fallout from the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression...

What is it with you guys and the total inability to recognize basic economic realities under Democratic presidents? Seriously?

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Cherry picking data, I see.

Carter added $300 billion in debt. Indeed largely unchanged and I intend no sarcasm.

Reagan added $1.86 billion. Indeed a large increase at that time.

GHW Bush added $1.55 trillion in debt. Less than Reagan so your characterization is a bit misleading.

Clinton added $1.396 billion. less than GHWB but hardly a balanced budget for his terms in office.

GW Bush added $5.84 trillion. Drastically increased the debt indeed

BH Obama added $7.917 trillion in debt. How on earth does someone increase the debt by 35% in 2 terms and get credit for reducing deficits? Deficits increased both in magnitude and in annual rate under Obama.

Peter, the one thing that that list really shows is the cost of military actions in Afghanastan etc.

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PeterZ wrote:

gcomeau wrote:The guy who cut a TRILLION dollars a year off the deficit WHILE dealing with the fallout from the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression...

What is it with you guys and the total inability to recognize basic economic realities under Democratic presidents? Seriously?

https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-president-by-dollar-and-percent-3306296

Cherry picking data, I see.

Not understanding the meaning of the term "cherry picking" I see.

Carter added $300 billion in debt. Indeed largely unchanged and I intend no sarcasm.

And of course you switch to debt instead of deficit... the standard conservative sleight of hand.

Let's agree on the accuracy of an analogy first shall we? Before I rebut everything you just said.




Let's say the country's finances are a boat.


The debt is how much water the boat has taken on.

The deficit/surplus is the rate at which water is either flooding into or being pumped out of the boat.


Fair?

I don't understand.

Why is it a conservative sleight of hand to talk about debt vs. deficit?

Are we really going to get a lecture on how Obama (and it really was a joint bipartisan effort) did a great thing by only adding $9T in debt rather than $10T?

Debt is now 100%+ of GDP. More than $100T in unfunded liabilities as far as the eye can see.

None of this is good and it looks like nothing is going to change in the near future either...

CRC wrote:I don't understand.

Why is it a conservative sleight of hand to talk about debt vs. deficit?

Sigh...


Ok, forget waiting for agreement on the analogy. To reiterate:

Debt = Water level in the boat.
Deficit = How fast water is coming into the boat


Let's say we have the USS United States sailing along. Right now it's being helmed by Captain Carter. And it's a little leaky. There's a little hole here and there. Water is starting to puddle up around some of the passenger's shoes... but it's manageable.

While this is going on some people want to talk about the total amount of water in the boat... some people want to talk about how fast it's rising. But frankly under these conditions it doesn't make a lot of difference.... whether you say that under Captain Carter the boat ended up with more water in it than it started with when he became Captain or if you want to say he didn't do anything to fix the leak that caused the water level to rise... they both work out about the same way.



Then, Captain Carter retires, and Captain Reagan takes over. Captain Reagan proceeds to knock a bunch of larger holes in the damn boat and water starts pouring in faster. It starts rising up over peoples calves. Now to Captain Reagan's credit, about halfway through his time as Captain he has a bit of realization that he made a mistake and he patches up at least some of those holes. But the end result is still that when he retires and hands off the boat to Captain Bush Sr the water level is a lot higher AND it's rising faster than it was when he took over. No matter how you look at it, things have gotten worse not better on the "water in the boat" front.



Captain Bush Sr... proceeds to damage the few repairs Captain Reagan made and open up all the holes again. Fortunately he's only Captain half as long as Reagan... but when he's done water is now up around people's knees and rising rapidly...



In steps Captain Clinton. Captain Clinton spends his entire time as Captain PATCHING FUCKING HOLES. By the time he is done there is NO water coming into the boat anymore. All patched up.

BUT.

Patching the holes took time. And while they were being patched they were all still leaking. The water level was still rising. From the minute Captain Clinton stepped onto the boat the water level was rising and kept rising while every hole was being patched... because of course there was no way for it NOT to. Holes in the boat don't just magically instantly stop passing water through them because the captain of the boat changed.

So, at the end of Captain Clinton's time as Captain all of this repair work has been done, the boat is no longer taking on water, the hull is sound, everything is under control. There's a lot of water in the boat, but the pumps are now working and they can start taking care of that next.


And HERE is where we get to the Big Fucking Difference between looking at deficit and debt.


Because one group of people (the look at the deficit people) are recognizing that they are a lot better off then they were before the boat was repaired. The boat being repaired and no longer, you know, sinking? That's a GOOD thing.


And one group of people (the look at the debt people) are ignoring all of that and saying "When you started as Captain the water was at our knees and now it's halfway up our thighs! YOU MADE IT ALL WORSE!!!!" (This might strike a reasonable adult as ungrateful juvenile bullshit.... just saying...)


Then... in steps Captain Bush Jr.

Captain Bush Jr immediately punches all the holes right back into the boat again. For most of his time as Captain the water level is rising about as fast as it was during Bush Sr. and Reagan's time as Captain. The water level rises up past people's hips and starts getting their stomachs wet...

And then, just as his time as Captain is about to end, he pilots straight into a fucking Iceberg Titanic style. Rips a GAPING WOUND in the side of the boat. Water is POURING in.

Aaaaaaand.... here you go Captain Obama! All yours! (Oh, and also the ship is on fire and the pumps are broken and the crew and passengers are injured from the collision....)

Under the circumstances, whether you're looking at it from a "how much water is in the boat" perspective or a "how fast is water coming in" perspective things have gotten way way way worse under Captain Bush jr. But looking at it from just a "how much water is in the boat" perspective doesn't begin to capture how much worse it is. Because that giant hole *just* got punched in the hull, it's effects on the water level are only just beginning.


Captain Obama spends his entire time as captain patching the giant gaping wound in the hull while also dealing with all the other damage. The flow of water slows from a rushing torrent to a strong flow to a still concerning rapid leak... but it's getting slower and slower while everything else gets gradually stabilized as well. But OF COURSE while this is being done the water level is rising really really fast. Because there's no other way for things to go. It's up around people's chins by the time it's time for Obama to hand off the job to Captain Trump...


And now we see, yet again, why conservatives want to be "look at the water level in the boat" (look at the debt) people. Because it completely ignores the repair work. It only cares that while the holes were being patched they were still leaking. And it completely ignores who was responsible for the boat when the hole got punched in it in the first place.





That is the sleight of hand. Get it?