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What has Trump done right so far?

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by CRC   » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:15 am

CRC
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Yeah its really amazing how those progressive California policies have made this state an absolute Utopia!! (So glad I abandoned it 25 years ago!)

My comment was simply related to this. Had Clinton won, I would have become a socialist and voted mine, and used everyone else's vote, for my pocket book from them on - just like every good converted socialist. Since the country was over with at that point into time, might as well ensure my own circumstance over the future good.

Now if Trump is successful, and that is far from assured given the array of estates against him, there might actually be a chance to at least delay the Jeffersonian adjustment a few more years into the future.

But the pendulum will swing back again - unless California follows through on its threat to secede. That would ease the pressures off of the drive to socialism and take away quite a few of the votes to push it in that direction.

I wonder what kind of immigration policy an independent country of CA would have?
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by gcomeau   » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:25 am

gcomeau
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CRC wrote:
gcomeau wrote: One little detail you appear to be unaware of.

That "FY" up there? That means those are Fiscal "years".

The 2009 budget? That's for the fiscal year beginning in October 2008. And you see the way budgets work is, you write them before the spending they set the budget for happens.

So unless you want to claim Obama got sworn in in January 2009 then went back in time and created the giant deficit in the budget for the fiscal year that was already almost half over... yeah, pretty sure I'm blaming it on Bush.



Caught you again there didn't I? You are of course forgetting a couple of "little" things.

1 - On March 11, 2009 Obama signed the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009 into law. Obama - not Bush.

2 - In June 2009, Obama signs the 2009 Supplemental Appropriations Act into Law.

Now please let your next obvious excuse fall into my next trap just as readily...


Wow, how embarrassing for you. The next time you claim someone "fell into your trap" by "forgetting" something? Don't delete the fucking part of their post where they stated that "something" you claimed they "forgot".

Specifically this part"

"Obama added a little bit to the deficit that year with emergency stimulus spending that got passed in the final months, but the deficit was already WELL north of a Trillion dollars before he even took the oath of office. "

Those acts you just pointed out Obama signed? Most of the spending in them was budgeted for THE FOLLOWING FISCAL YEAR.


To repeat. The Deficit was well north of a Trillion in the CBO budget Summary January 2009 BEFORE OBAMA EVEN TOOK OFFICE.

Or if you can't understand that and need it in picture form:

Image

See where that line is where that little arrow says "Bush leaves office"? WAY down negative in deficit territory? Unless Obama time travelled he didn't fucking run that line down there.

Then that *slight* further dip before it starts rocketing back up in the good direction? That's those bills you just mentioned. That and the 2009 number moving slightly more negative.

Would you like to lay any other failed "traps" based on not understanding your own country's budget history now?
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:23 am

Annachie
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CRC, would that progressive utopia have anything to do with 32 years of GOP governors in the last 50?

That progressive utopia?

Come to think of it, 25 years ago was a GOP Govenor.

So, what, Pres. Reagan was too progressive for you? Is that how far left you have to be to be a leftie?
Pete Wilson too left? (He was govenor in '92)
Says a lot more about you than California.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:09 am

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http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1997_2017USb_18s2li111lcn_G0f
Projections are fake news. The real numbers show Obama had bigger deficits tha any year in the Bush Presidency, save 2009. Generously granting that was the final year Bush was responsible for, which CRC aregues he was not.

Obama reduced spending from that massive Porkulus plan. Instead of creating his own priorities, he used continuing resolutions of Bush's final budget. He had the votes those first two years to get any budget through, but still relied on continuing resolutions to milk that bloated 2009 level spending.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:44 am

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PeterZ wrote:http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1997_2017USb_18s2li111lcn_G0f
Projections are fake news. The real numbers show Obama had bigger deficits tha any year in the Bush Presidency, save 2009. Generously granting that was the final year Bush was responsible for, which CRC aregues he was not.

Obama reduced spending from that massive Porkulus plan. Instead of creating his own priorities, he used continuing resolutions of Bush's final budget. He had the votes those first two years to get any budget through, but still relied on continuing resolutions to milk that bloated 2009 level spending.



This sounds like a familiar conversation.....

Oh right, we already had it.


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8664&start=96
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:37 pm

PeterZ
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gcomeau wrote:
PeterZ wrote:http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1997_2017USb_18s2li111lcn_G0f
Projections are fake news. The real numbers show Obama had bigger deficits tha any year in the Bush Presidency, save 2009. Generously granting that was the final year Bush was responsible for, which CRC aregues he was not.

Obama reduced spending from that massive Porkulus plan. Instead of creating his own priorities, he used continuing resolutions of Bush's final budget. He had the votes those first two years to get any budget through, but still relied on continuing resolutions to milk that bloated 2009 level spending.



This sounds like a familiar conversation.....

Oh right, we already had it.


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8664&start=96


Yup. Your changing the chart to reflect projections rather than actual numbers makes your argument even less persuasive.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:01 pm

gcomeau
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PeterZ wrote:
gcomeau wrote:This sounds like a familiar conversation.....

Oh right, we already had it.


viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8664&start=96


Yup. Your changing the chart to reflect projections rather than actual numbers makes your argument even less persuasive.


I didn't "change the chart". That was the actual numbers when Obama took office. And I specifically stated in my post that Obama's stimulus moved them slightly more negative after that. (Something else that moved them more negative? Revisions to economic numbers from the end of Calendar 2008 showing the economy was plummeting significantly faster than was thought at the time)


The purpose of that chart was educating CRC on the fact that Bush drove the deficit above a Trillion BEFORE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE. Obama has reduced that deficit *substantially* since that time *while* also pulling the economy out of that implosion.


None of that is "fake news". Those are facts.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:38 pm

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Location: Colorado

gcomeau wrote:
I didn't "change the chart". That was the actual numbers when Obama took office. And I specifically stated in my post that Obama's stimulus moved them slightly more negative after that. (Something else that moved them more negative? Revisions to economic numbers from the end of Calendar 2008 showing the economy was plummeting significantly faster than was thought at the time)


The purpose of that chart was educating CRC on the fact that Bush drove the deficit above a Trillion BEFORE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE. Obama has reduced that deficit *substantially* since that time *while* also pulling the economy out of that implosion.


None of that is "fake news". Those are facts.


No, those were projections when Obama took office, not real numbers. Projections are never real numbers. Depending on the assumptions made, they can approach being accurate or be "fake news". Looking at how much those projections varied from reality, I suspect that the assumptions made to generate those projections was rubbish.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:47 pm

gcomeau
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PeterZ wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
I didn't "change the chart". That was the actual numbers when Obama took office. And I specifically stated in my post that Obama's stimulus moved them slightly more negative after that. (Something else that moved them more negative? Revisions to economic numbers from the end of Calendar 2008 showing the economy was plummeting significantly faster than was thought at the time)


The purpose of that chart was educating CRC on the fact that Bush drove the deficit above a Trillion BEFORE OBAMA TOOK OFFICE. Obama has reduced that deficit *substantially* since that time *while* also pulling the economy out of that implosion.


None of that is "fake news". Those are facts.


No, those were projections when Obama took office, not real numbers.


The red parts are projections. And I stated those projections were later downward revised slightly.


The blue part where the deficit NOSEDIVES to 10% of GDP is THE REAL DAMN NUMBERS as of Obama taking office.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by PeterZ   » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:45 pm

PeterZ
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Posts: 5171
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

gcomeau wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
No, those were projections when Obama took office, not real numbers.


The red parts are projections. And I stated those projections were later downward revised slightly.


The blue part where the deficit NOSEDIVES to 10% of GDP is THE REAL DAMN NUMBERS as of Obama taking office.


Even the chart has the shaded section labeled as PROJECTED. Just to the right of the "Bush leaves White House" arrow.

Below is the actual deficits. With the exception of 2015, President Obama had greater deficits than Bush is every year other than that 2009 Porkulus.

You chart projects a deficit of $769bn in 2012. That's 5% of GDP and a GDP of $15.38tr. As you can see the actual numbers came in much higher; $1.087tr. That's a 41% miss from what was projected on your chart.

So, yeah, relying on projections IS fake news.

https://www.thebalance.com/deficit-by-president-what-budget-deficits-hide-3306151

President Barack Obama: Total Projected Plus Actual Deficits = $6.575 trillion, a 56 percent increase.
FY 2017 - $441 billion projected.
FY 2016 - $600 billion expected.
FY 2015 - $438 billion.
FY 2014 - $485 billion.
FY 2013 - $679 billion.
FY 2012 - $1.087 trillion.
FY 2011 - $1.300 trillion.
FY 2010 - $1.547 ($1.294 trillion plus $253 billion from the Obama Stimulus Act that was attached to the FY 2009 budget).

President George W. Bush: Total = $3.293 trillion, a 57 percent increase.
FY 2009 - $1.16 trillion. ($1.413 trillion minus $253 billion from Obama's Stimulus Act)
FY 2008 - $459 billion.
FY 2007 - $161 billion.
FY 2006 - $248 billion.
FY 2005 - $318 billion.
FY 2004 - $413 billion.
FY 2003 - $378 billion.
FY 2002 - $158 billion.
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