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What has Trump done right so far?

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by CRC   » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:19 pm

CRC
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Maybe I’ve made a mistake here. I assumed the OP sincerely wanted a real list of people’s opinion in order to have a rationale, intellectual discussion. So I dove right in looking forward to a real discussion rather than a regurgitation of facebook news clips and partisan talking points. My hopes for discussions the likes of Safehold and Honor story arc speculations and analysis have been dashed.

But just to make the best of the situation, and have some fun doing it…

1 – Stopped Hillary Clinton from becoming President.

Stopped anyone actually qualified or competant becomming President. So nope.

Actually he stopped everyone except Bernie. The Dems did that on their very own. My point was that he stopped Hillary Clinton. That I consider his number one “right” achievement. I understand you don’t agree. That’s fine. Once again your comment contains the pejorative and negative spin commentary – see #4 below.

2 – Turned the US political system on its head.

Nope. It needed shaking up from the tea party obstructionism, not the shear destruction that is, essentially, still tea party crap. So nope.

Tea party obstructionism? Where did that come from? Ah yes, see #4 below. And as far as “sheer” destruction, you are correct. It was either this or Jefferson’s postulate. (Of course it’s interesting is ask the question how many Tea Party people burned vehicles and torched businesses during their protests?) The left still doesn’t get it. The core issue is the same exact issue that caused the Brexit vote. A government that gives you everything you want can take it all away – or in our case – a government that can buy a society of dependents can ensure its future power by threatening those dependents.

3 – Exposed the hypocrisy of the left on multiple issue related to the Constitution – from the electoral college to the first amendment to the 4th amendment to the 9th amendment

What hypocrisy? You might have a point on the 2nd amendment, but the GOP are just as bad. So nope.

No I specifically limited my “right” to hypocrisy from the left. One of O’Reilly’s best comments is that you don’t justify bad behavior by using bad behavior as the excuse.
My examples are from Hillary’s declaration in the debates of the electoral college, echoed by DNC personnel, to the media, dems and court’s finding of the 4th amendment and 9th amendment violations of Trumps first immigration order and illegal immigration crackdowns. As far as the first amendment goes, that’s even more obvious, see #4 below, and your comment to #2 above.

4 – Laid bare the mainstream media’s political bias.

The sun shines in the daytime. What Trump has actually done is dramatically overstated the already known about political bias to the point of claiming that the actual neutral media is biased (BBC News for example) to try and paint a false picture of the media as the enemy of the people. So nope.

Of course he’s overstated. Duh! But this is my comment and my wording. Any fair reading of MSNBC, my default news source, and the stories sourced to AP, NBC, CBS and especially CNN, show an unbelievable bias and hatred in the reporting and manufacturing of the news. Yes, when there is no negative news to report, they actually go find someone to make a negative comment and then use that as “news”. The best example is the CNN story about how Prebus tried to “influence” the FBI to counter news about the Russian “portfolio”. I mean geez, once you liken Trump to a person who ordered the death and enslavement of millions, where else can you go?
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by CRC   » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:25 pm

CRC
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Posts: 131
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7 – Exposed the deep state issue – can anyone say “Mandarin”?

What the hell is the "Deep state issue"? Seriously, I just looked it up and I still have no idea what you mean.

I forget who coined the term, but it is a layer of unelected civil servants who decide they don’t like the outcome of an election or want to do something, sometimes illegal, to forward a political cause.
Lois Lerner is one potential example. Snowden is another. The 2005 leaks about the FISA court cell phone taps are another. The flurry of leaks presently coming from the “intelligence” community is another example.

8 – Executive order requiring every agency to establish a Regulatory Reform Task.

Not quite. Executive orders requoring every agency to remove regulations regardless of if they were needed or not. So nope.

Wrong EO – see #4 above. I am referring to the EO requiring agencies to create Task Forces to make recommendations on regulations to repeal or simplify. So are you supporting each and every existing regulation in the government? Are you saying there is no need to review?

9 – Executive Order dealing with DoJ task forces.

Lol, destroying the economy, subverting state rights, abusing due process. Nope. Actually that is damn near his biggest fuck up. A moments thought and he could have done brilliantly on this one issue, but no has has to go all Bannon and royalky fuck the pooch.

Once again, wrong EO – see #4 above. The EO I am referring to is the one that directs Sessions to establish a new Task Force on Crime Reduction and Public Safety. So are you against such a Task Force?

10 – Executive order reviewing Dodd Frank.

You do understand why Dodd Frank was brought in don't you. You do understand the damage that was done to the world economy, let alone the American economy, that Dodd Frank is designed to prevent don't you? So nope.

Hey right EO this time. So Dodd-Frank is perfect? All regulations promulgated from Dodd-Frank are perfect? Nothing to be done here? At all? Sounds like rather extreme position – see #4 above..

11 – Executive Order lengthening the ban on Executive brank lobbyists.

Should be all lobyists and governmwnt employies. So 50/50.

Perfect example of my opening statement and #4 above. It’s intellectually dishonest to not give him a 100% credit for this. You deduct 50%, which is incorrect BTW - you should actually deduct 66%-90% credit to toe the #4 party line. The reason for this is because the president has no power over congressional or judicial branch employment policies. He only has power over the executive branch. And actually only over political appointees in the executive branch. Civil service rules and regulations trump executive power at this point. (Hence the 66 - 90% credit reduction.)

12 – Executive Order for Keystone pipeline and Dakota access.

Because authorising a pipeline through sacred ground in violation of existing treaties so a Canadian company can sell oil to the Chinese is good how? Nope.

I have surveyed the route map for the Dakota access pipeline and it does not cross any sacred ground or reservations. See #4 above.
I have surveyed the route map of the Keystone pipeline and the only place it passes through treaty areas is in Oklahoma, but that section is already built and completed. See #4 above.
Furthermore, your comment of “selling oil” to the Chinese makes no sense, see #4 above, because the pipeline is to transport the heavy oil to gulf coast refineries capable of refining such oil. If the Canadians wanted to sell the oil directly to the Chinese, they don’t have to go through Texas to do it.

13 - Executive Order Hiring Freeze

Iffy. It's the typical shiny bum "let's cut a percentage of our workforce" purely so they can point to a reduced wages bill but ignoring the potential for damage to the business. It then usually ends with said jobs being outsourced for a higher cost to a company owned by an insider. So that's a 50/50. Hiring freeze is good, reason for it is terrible.

I was specifically referring to the hiring freeze EO. I was not trolling for a tangential deflection to a generic discussion on outsourcing, but in typical let’s not give an inch fashion – see #4 above, you agree with the freeze, but want to impugn the motive in order to generate a net negative. A great example of what the press is presently doing. Nicely done!

As I review the score board, it appears you might be on the verge of agreeing with 50% of my list. Now it’s time to either fish, cut bait or obfuscate – I’m betting on the Big O…
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:36 pm

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CRC wrote:7 – Exposed the deep state issue – can anyone say “Mandarin”?

What the hell is the "Deep state issue"? Seriously, I just looked it up and I still have no idea what you mean.

I forget who coined the term, but it is a layer of unelected civil servants who decide they don’t like the outcome of an election or want to do something, sometimes illegal, to forward a political cause.
Lois Lerner is one potential example. Snowden is another. The 2005 leaks about the FISA court cell phone taps are another. The flurry of leaks presently coming from the “intelligence” community is another example.


So setting aside the conspiracy theory undertones of that... how exactly has Trump "exposed" anything considering 3 of the 4 extremely public examples you just gave pre-dated him?

8 – Executive order requiring every agency to establish a Regulatory Reform Task.

Not quite. Executive orders requoring every agency to remove regulations regardless of if they were needed or not. So nope.

Wrong EO – see #4 above. I am referring to the EO requiring agencies to create Task Forces to make recommendations on regulations to repeal or simplify. So are you supporting each and every existing regulation in the government? Are you saying there is no need to review?


Are you saying you actually think they haven't been repeatedly reviewed before?

Obama Orders Review of Government Regulations - 2011.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-obama ... 3W20110118


9 – Executive Order dealing with DoJ task forces.

Lol, destroying the economy, subverting state rights, abusing due process. Nope. Actually that is damn near his biggest fuck up. A moments thought and he could have done brilliantly on this one issue, but no has has to go all Bannon and royalky fuck the pooch.

Once again, wrong EO – see #4 above. The EO I am referring to is the one that directs Sessions to establish a new Task Force on Crime Reduction and Public Safety. So are you against such a Task Force?


Pointless busywork and grandstanding. As if all the myriad law enforcement agencies across the nation weren't already working on this... all the time... as you know, their entire job.


10 – Executive order reviewing Dodd Frank.

You do understand why Dodd Frank was brought in don't you. You do understand the damage that was done to the world economy, let alone the American economy, that Dodd Frank is designed to prevent don't you? So nope.

Hey right EO this time. So Dodd-Frank is perfect? All regulations promulgated from Dodd-Frank are perfect? Nothing to be done here? At all? Sounds like rather extreme position – see #4 above..


You know perfectly well this isn't about making Dodd Frank better, it's about gutting it so Trump's rich buddies not to mention his own companies are under less oversight.


11 – Executive Order lengthening the ban on Executive brank lobbyists.



Would give him credit.... if he wasn't just giving entire government agencies and departments directly TO the people they are supposed to be regulating so they have no need to lobby. (EPA and Education anyone... not to mention making the CEO of Exxon Mobile Sec State...)


12 – Executive Order for Keystone pipeline and Dakota access.

Because authorising a pipeline through sacred ground in violation of existing treaties so a Canadian company can sell oil to the Chinese is good how? Nope.

I have surveyed the route map for the Dakota access pipeline and it does not cross any sacred ground or reservations. See #4 above.


And you're a much more authoritative source on that subject than the Sioux whose burial sites they are who say the pipeline cuts right through a sacred burial site...?

(Not to mention through the only source of clean water for the entire reservation.)

13 - Executive Order Hiring Freeze

Iffy. It's the typical shiny bum "let's cut a percentage of our workforce" purely so they can point to a reduced wages bill but ignoring the potential for damage to the business. It then usually ends with said jobs being outsourced for a higher cost to a company owned by an insider. So that's a 50/50. Hiring freeze is good, reason for it is terrible.

I was specifically referring to the hiring freeze EO.


Which was more stupid pointless grandstanding and has already had a bunch of unintended but entirely predictable negative consequences because when you want to cut waste generally you have to IDENTIFY waste first, not just declare a blanket prohibition on hires without knowing what people are being hired *for*.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:55 am

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Nah, there's so very qualified people on the GOP side too.
Or are you saying that there weren't any?

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:06 am

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7. Been doing more reading on deep state. The Trump administration is seriously mis-using the term by using it about leaks.

The thing is leaking is a sign that the administration staff is unhappy with the government's functioning. Either pointing out illegal, or (arguably) immoral actions.
Indeed, your examples make that point.

So no he hasn't exposed the deep state issue, which is best described as the "Shadow Government". (Think Blacklist season 1 and 2 :) )
What he is complaining about is his own staff's (and several leaks have to be his own appointed staff) unhappiness with how they are being treated.

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:09 am

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8. Regulatory reform is an ongoing process. It should always be done.

Pres. Trump's EO is more about getting rid of regulations WITHOUT proper review.
About getting rid of needed regulations. Dodd Frank is a good example.

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:30 am

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9 you're right. I had the wrong EO. You appear to be refering to the one that instructs the AG to do his normal job.
Pretty sure it's only function is so the PR machine can say they're doing something.

10. Dodd Frank.
You understand that members of the administration are the very people whose actions caused it to come into being.
That the Presidents comments on it are all about removing it entirely.
11. As President he should be able to push it to all.
BTW, what party line? Social Conservative mate. Only left wing compared to the US far right.

13. Perhaps I've let my personal prejudice shine through. Having been on the end of it a couple of times.
But then I have a friend who won big on the other side. Paid twice as much to do his job as a consultant. Hell paid more to work from home.

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Annachie   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:39 am

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Oh, and btw. The "Deep State" is usually associated with the industrial military complex

The USA already spend more on military than the next 12 largest militaries in the world.
And are now upping that budget by 10%.
Bet you none of that 10% increase goes to soldiers pay.
Doubt it would even go to boots on the ground.
It'll be big ticket items.

Sounds like the "Deep State" to me.

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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by Starsaber   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:58 am

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Annachie wrote:Oh, and btw. The "Deep State" is usually associated with the industrial military complex

The USA already spend more on military than the next 12 largest militaries in the world.
And are now upping that budget by 10%.
Bet you none of that 10% increase goes to soldiers pay.
Doubt it would even go to boots on the ground.
It'll be big ticket items.

Sounds like the "Deep State" to me.

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I agree about the military budget increase and I work in the defense industry. If there are problems with the military budget, it's with priorities, not quantity. We don't have hostile powers on either of our borders, so there's no need to spend so much on defense.
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Re: What has Trump done right so far?
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:31 am

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Starsaber wrote:
Annachie wrote:Oh, and btw. The "Deep State" is usually associated with the industrial military complex

The USA already spend more on military than the next 12 largest militaries in the world.
And are now upping that budget by 10%.
Bet you none of that 10% increase goes to soldiers pay.
Doubt it would even go to boots on the ground.
It'll be big ticket items.

Sounds like the "Deep State" to me.

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk


I agree about the military budget increase and I work in the defense industry. If there are problems with the military budget, it's with priorities, not quantity. We don't have hostile powers on either of our borders, so there's no need to spend so much on defense.


Lowering the priority for NATO and let the Europeans defend themselves is one place to begin. Western Europe is no longer the destitute bunch of bombed out nations it was after WWII. The EU nations aggregate GDPs approximate the US at ~83% of ours in 2015. There is no reason they cannot shoulder their own defense. Sure the US will honor the treaty. But why must the US be the tip of the spear? Heck, we're the entire spearhead. Should NATO be attacked, we can mobilize and send troops to Europe's defense.
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