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The Trump Administration's War With Reality

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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon May 14, 2018 4:29 am

The E
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smr wrote:How much does a private, pfc, or specialist make? That's what I thought...you don't know what your talking about! Like that any different than the rest of your progressive views...Question why do they give a person more money when they are married (I am only speaking about enlisted folks).


Yet another perfect exhibit of modern conservative debating tactics, albeit applied without skill or understanding of the reasons how or why they work.

smr, here's a free tip for you: Whataboutism only works if the person you're trying to derail doesn't notice that they are being derailed. All you've done here is to discredit yourself by making it blatantly obvious that you have not read what gcomeau wrote and what he was criticizing, making it clear to everyone concerned (as if such clarification was still necessary), that you are not worth listening to.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Mon May 14, 2018 9:59 am

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Excuse me but I was enlisted and then became and NCO so I know what I am talking about. How long were in you in the US military. Thought so! Correct me if I am wrong but the Great E has never been in the US military and I doubt you have been in the German military!

One, you really do not know how little the enlisted earn! I do not speak for the officers because I was never a commissioned officer. The enlisted hardly earn anything so I really do resent when you speak out and represent yourself as knowing anything about the military or the military pay. At the end of my contract in 98 I was earning hardly anything but my housing was paid for. The enlisted need a huge pay raise. So kindly leave that out of the discussion of Trump. Your welcome to bash Trump all day if that makes you feel good about yourself if not suck it up and soldier on. If G and E have figured the fact that I have a special place in my heart for the volunteers of the US military here's the newflash!
http://work.chron.com/basic-pay-scale-us-military-enlisted-personnel-21431.html

The E wrote:
smr wrote:How much does a private, pfc, or specialist make? That's what I thought...you don't know what your talking about! Like that any different than the rest of your progressive views...Question why do they give a person more money when they are married (I am only speaking about enlisted folks).


Yet another perfect exhibit of modern conservative debating tactics, albeit applied without skill or understanding of the reasons how or why they work.

smr, here's a free tip for you: Whataboutism only works if the person you're trying to derail doesn't notice that they are being derailed. All you've done here is to discredit yourself by making it blatantly obvious that you have not read what gcomeau wrote and what he was criticizing, making it clear to everyone concerned (as if such clarification was still necessary), that you are not worth listening to.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by gcomeau   » Mon May 14, 2018 11:15 am

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smr wrote:Excuse me but I was enlisted and then became and NCO so I know what I am talking about. How long were in you in the US military. Thought so! Correct me if I am wrong but the Great E has never been in the US military and I doubt you have been in the German military!

One, you really do not know how little the enlisted earn! I do not speak for the officers because I was never a commissioned officer. The enlisted hardly earn anything so I really do resent when you speak out and represent yourself as knowing anything about the military or the military pay. At the end of my contract in 98 I was earning hardly anything but my housing was paid for. The enlisted need a huge pay raise. So kindly leave that out of the discussion of Trump. Your welcome to bash Trump all day if that makes you feel good about yourself if not suck it up and soldier on. If G and E have figured the fact that I have a special place in my heart for the volunteers of the US military here's the newflash!
http://work.chron.com/basic-pay-scale-us-military-enlisted-personnel-21431.html


Congratulations on the rant.

Now tell us WHAT THE HELL any of that has to do with the fact that by congressional mandate the military gets a raise every single year and Trump has nothing to do with that. It happens automatically under the law. Trump did not give them their first raise in 10 years. Trump did not give them a raise AT ALL. Congress did. And they arranged it many years ago.


What part of all that rant you just posted addresses that? Explain.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon May 14, 2018 2:51 pm

The E
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smr wrote:Excuse me but I was enlisted and then became and NCO so I know what I am talking about. How long were in you in the US military. Thought so! Correct me if I am wrong but the Great E has never been in the US military and I doubt you have been in the German military!


You're wrong, by the way.

One, you really do not know how little the enlisted earn! I do not speak for the officers because I was never a commissioned officer. The enlisted hardly earn anything so I really do resent when you speak out and represent yourself as knowing anything about the military or the military pay. At the end of my contract in 98 I was earning hardly anything but my housing was paid for. The enlisted need a huge pay raise. So kindly leave that out of the discussion of Trump. Your welcome to bash Trump all day if that makes you feel good about yourself if not suck it up and soldier on. If G and E have figured the fact that I have a special place in my heart for the volunteers of the US military here's the newflash!
http://work.chron.com/basic-pay-scale-us-military-enlisted-personnel-21431.html


Yeah, see, neither I nor gcomeau really know or care whether or not US enlisted servicemen are over- or underpaid. It's beside the point for this discussion. Trump claimed that the bill he signed represented the first pay raise for servicemembers in a decade, which is flat out wrong, given that servicemembers have been getting pay raises every single year since 1983.

Now, fun prediction time! I will predict that smr will stop reading this post after the "know or care" part. His next response will therefore be another rant about how I and gc are somehow amoral and don't know what we're talking about (smr, if you made it this far without posting an angry, badly worded response, congratulations! You've managed to prove me wrong. Now, prove me more wrong and start putting some effort into your posts! Nothing would enrage stupid liberal me more than you posting something intelligent.)
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by gcomeau   » Wed May 16, 2018 5:46 pm

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https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tillers ... d=55211178

Tillerson speech at Virginia Military Institute:

"If our leaders seek to conceal the truth or we as people become accepting of alternative realities that are no longer grounded in facts, then we as American citizens are on a pathway to relinquishing our freedom," he told the graduates.

At the center of "a growing crisis of ethics and integrity," he said, was that kind of assault on the truth, the "central tenet of a free society."



Now, he didn't explicitly come out and say his most recent boss was the lyingest liar who ever lied in Washington DC... but we all know where this speech was coming from.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Wed May 16, 2018 10:04 pm

smr
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I am not the one calling people nazis, racist, or just plain liars. LOL at your critique! My point is that the enlisted are severely underpaid and disparaging their service for political rhetoric is just slightly asinine. Granted most of the enlisted would blow the extra money on alcohol or women (or men)(I guess I am showing my age).

The E wrote:
smr wrote:Excuse me but I was enlisted and then became and NCO so I know what I am talking about. How long were in you in the US military. Thought so! Correct me if I am wrong but the Great E has never been in the US military and I doubt you have been in the German military!


You're wrong, by the way.

One, you really do not know how little the enlisted earn! I do not speak for the officers because I was never a commissioned officer. The enlisted hardly earn anything so I really do resent when you speak out and represent yourself as knowing anything about the military or the military pay. At the end of my contract in 98 I was earning hardly anything but my housing was paid for. The enlisted need a huge pay raise. So kindly leave that out of the discussion of Trump. Your welcome to bash Trump all day if that makes you feel good about yourself if not suck it up and soldier on. If G and E have figured the fact that I have a special place in my heart for the volunteers of the US military here's the newflash!
http://work.chron.com/basic-pay-scale-us-military-enlisted-personnel-21431.html


Yeah, see, neither I nor gcomeau really know or care whether or not US enlisted servicemen are over- or underpaid. It's beside the point for this discussion. Trump claimed that the bill he signed represented the first pay raise for servicemembers in a decade, which is flat out wrong, given that servicemembers have been getting pay raises every single year since 1983.

Now, fun prediction time! I will predict that smr will stop reading this post after the "know or care" part. His next response will therefore be another rant about how I and gc are somehow amoral and don't know what we're talking about (smr, if you made it this far without posting an angry, badly worded response, congratulations! You've managed to prove me wrong. Now, prove me more wrong and start putting some effort into your posts! Nothing would enrage stupid liberal me more than you posting something intelligent.)
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by Fireflair   » Thu May 17, 2018 1:16 am

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Having retired as an enlisted man I can assure you that every time I got a pay raise, either through cost of living adjustment, an increase in grade or some other method the money never went to beer/women or whatever.

An E-3 makes almost 1900 a month when they start out, and at age 18 with your housing taken care of, food taken care of and (hopefully) little to no debt or expenses that should be sufficient to live on and then some. A married enlisted man at least has a roof over his head and his spouse's, though they will probably qualify for food stamps (but be ineligible)if they have children up until they're an E-5 over four years.

As an E-6, when I retired I was bringing in almost 110k a year. That was base pay, sub pay, sea pay, pro-pay, food allowance and housing allowance, plus my annual bonus. This of course doesn't include things like being in a tax free zone, medical/dental benefits for myself and family or life insurance. Now is the pay worth what we risk and the dangers we faced, not to mention the massive amount of hours spent working? Of course not, but that doesn't mean I was poor, living pay check to paycheck or something.

I joined in the mid-90's and saw a major pay jump in '98/99 time frame. There had been annual cost of living adjustments but during that time frame Congress approved an overhaul of the military pay scales to bring pay more in line with civilian equivalents. That plan occurred over about a 2 year period with significant raises every 6 months as the pay scales were slowly adjusted upward.

As far as Trump's declaration that he's providing the first major pay raise for the military in 10 years, he's an idiot and once more is talking out of his ass.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Thu May 17, 2018 1:55 am

The E
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Posts: 1980
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Location: Bielefeld, Germany

smr wrote:I am not the one calling people nazis, racist, or just plain liars. LOL at your critique! My point is that the enlisted are severely underpaid and disparaging their service for political rhetoric is just slightly asinine. Granted most of the enlisted would blow the extra money on alcohol or women (or men)(I guess I am showing my age).


The E wrote:Now, fun prediction time! I will predict that smr will stop reading this post after the "know or care" part. His next response will therefore be another rant about how I and gc are somehow amoral and don't know what we're talking about.


It's so much fun when your predictions come true.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by gcomeau   » Thu May 17, 2018 11:15 am

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smr wrote:I am not the one calling people nazis, racist, or just plain liars.


When those people ARE nazis, racists and just plain liars it is appropriate to say so.


LOL at your critique! My point is that the enlisted are severely underpaid and disparaging their service for political rhetoric is just slightly asinine.


And who, exactly, was disparaging anyone's service in this thread? Please point us at where it happened. SPECIFICALLY.
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Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by gcomeau   » Thu May 17, 2018 1:55 pm

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3875617792

Trump logic: The fact that my campaign was so riddled with foreign contacts and suspicious activity the FBI felt compelled to launch an investigation into it that has thus far produced multiple guilty pleas and a whole host of indictments is the biggest most massive horrible scandal ever.... FOR OBAMA!


:roll:
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