Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

The Trump Administration's War With Reality

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:53 am

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

smr wrote:No one cares if you are Muslim until they start killing people and waging a worldwide Jihad.


The number of people claiming that muslims, whether moderate or radical, do not have a place in western society is far too large and comprised of far too many ostensibly serious people for that statement to be true, but continue.

The fact that they were beheading Gays, Christians and Jews in the Middle East means nothing to you. That's OK in your book...


Just as other suppositions you've made about me, this too is wrong. But I am sure that that won't impact your argument at all, right?

I know we Christians and Jews are trying to kill you.(Sarcasn Intended) If you are a unbeliever: it's ok to lie to you, steal from you, and kill you in the name of Mohammed!


EDITOR'S NOTE: The above sentence is incoherent. It is unclear who you are referring to; please clarify.

Homework assignment for theE: what is sharia law and how does that apply to every Muslim. Newsflash: if you are gay or atheist, you will be killed! That is why I believe all Radical Jihadists should be imprisoned or killed because they are extreme danger to civilization regardless of religion.


And when a country decides to base its criminal justice system on the sharia, then that's a country that should be shunned and isolated. Tell me, how's that going so far regarding Saudi-Arabia?

Second homework assignment, go read the Koran and see for yourself what Islam stands for. Someday real soon theE you will have to decide whether to fight or join Islam.


Why? Please do elaborate on your reasoning behind this claim; do point out in particular why Germany is in danger of becoming islamist; I need a good laugh. Also, I kinda want more confirmation that you are unable to look past an extremely limited and extremely biased set of news sources, which I am sure your answer will demonstrate.

Note that I distinguish between Islam and Radical Jihadists. Most Muslims just want to work, raise their family, and be left in peace!


Then why are there so many pro-Trump people in favour of strict regulations against public displays of muslim behaviour? When was the last time a Mosque was filled with people wearing MAGA hats? When was the last time an openly practicing muslim was welcomed by Trump?
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:51 am

smr
Commodore

Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:18 pm

Then why are there so many pro-Trump people in favour of strict regulations against public displays of muslim behaviour? When was the last time a Mosque was filled with people wearing MAGA hats? When was the last time an openly
practicing muslim was welcomed by Trump?
from theE.

Regardless of what you or I think, a muslim is allowed to display Muslim behaviors as long as they are not interfering with my constitutional rights. That means they can pray to Allah just they can not block a public street. Hever been in a Mosque in America so I can not answer that rhetorical and irrational question about Muslims and MAGA hats.

Now you wanted more explanations about Muslims and how they treat non-Muslims. They can lie, cheat, steal and kill Non believers. So I guess you decided not to study the Koran. What about your other homework assignment of Sharia Law.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:03 am

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

[quote="smr"Regardless of what you or I think, a muslim is allowed to display Muslim behaviors as long as they are not interfering with my constitutional rights. That means they can pray to Allah just they can not block a public street. Hever been in a Mosque in America so I can not answer that rhetorical and irrational question about Muslims and MAGA hats. [/quote]

It is neither a rhetorical nor an irrational question, just as the question of how many black open-carry enthusiasts exist is neither rhetorical nor irrational.

If all Trump and his followers were against was radical islam and radical islamic terrorists, then I'm certain that there would be more muslim supporters for Trump.
But there aren't. Why? Because while you may think that being against islam means being against radical islam, not against good old Yussuf who's working at the gas station, that's not what your laws are written against. It's not what your law enforcement people are trained to distinguish.

Basically, you can make the claim that my question was irrational only when you can prove that open adherence to islam (i.e. public prayer, public displays of allegiance through clothing etc) is no longer seen as an indicator of suspicious behaviour. In order to do that, you could (and this is just a random example) study how often openly practicing christians are stopped for "random" searches at airports vs how often openly practicing muslims are.

Now you wanted more explanations about Muslims and how they treat non-Muslims. They can lie, cheat, steal and kill Non believers.


See, I actually know a bit about islam and the quran.

I know, for example, that the source for your claim is verse 9:5.

I also know that you (or rather, the people you are parroting) are taking this passage out of context. The context, in this case, is that the "polytheists" were oathbreakers against the muslims; they violated treaties made with muslims (verse 9:4 is a command to muslims to respect treaties made with others).

Islam is not a pacifist religion, no. But the Prophet certainly prefers reaction to aggression; retaliation and defense over attack.

So I guess you decided not to study the Koran. What about your other homework assignment of Sharia Law.


I also know that Sharia is an entire framework of judicial procedure, not just a list of offenses. I also know that it is neither immutable nor all bad; I know that justifications for terrorism or violence under Sharia are tenuous at best and heavily debated among muslim scholars. If you want me to decry hardline interpretations of it, I'll happily do that; however, if you want me to say "Sharia is the worst thing ever", I won't -- just as I won't expect you to denounce the bible just because it contains passages that we believe to be barbaric nonsense today.

Now, what about your homework assignments? Have you yet explained why I "will have to decide whether to fight or join Islam"?

Because, as far as I can tell, I won't ever have to make that decision. Prove me wrong. Bonus points will be awarded for every citation and deducted for every citation I can trace to Breitbart, Infowars, Stephan Molyneux or Lauren Southern.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:02 pm

smr
Commodore

Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:18 pm

Yes I know the answer but you have to read the Koran to decide for yourself the answer.

The E wrote:[quote="smr"Regardless of what you or I think, a muslim is allowed to display Muslim behaviors as long as they are not interfering with my constitutional rights. That means they can pray to Allah just they can not block a public street. Hever been in a Mosque in America so I can not answer that rhetorical and irrational question about Muslims and MAGA hats.


It is neither a rhetorical nor an irrational question, just as the question of how many black open-carry enthusiasts exist is neither rhetorical nor irrational.

If all Trump and his followers were against was radical islam and radical islamic terrorists, then I'm certain that there would be more muslim supporters for Trump.
But there aren't. Why? Because while you may think that being against islam means being against radical islam, not against good old Yussuf who's working at the gas station, that's not what your laws are written against. It's not what your law enforcement people are trained to distinguish.

Basically, you can make the claim that my question was irrational only when you can prove that open adherence to islam (i.e. public prayer, public displays of allegiance through clothing etc) is no longer seen as an indicator of suspicious behaviour. In order to do that, you could (and this is just a random example) study how often openly practicing christians are stopped for "random" searches at airports vs how often openly practicing muslims are.

Now you wanted more explanations about Muslims and how they treat non-Muslims. They can lie, cheat, steal and kill Non believers.


See, I actually know a bit about islam and the quran.

I know, for example, that the source for your claim is verse 9:5.

I also know that you (or rather, the people you are parroting) are taking this passage out of context. The context, in this case, is that the "polytheists" were oathbreakers against the muslims; they violated treaties made with muslims (verse 9:4 is a command to muslims to respect treaties made with others).

Islam is not a pacifist religion, no. But the Prophet certainly prefers reaction to aggression; retaliation and defense over attack.

So I guess you decided not to study the Koran. What about your other homework assignment of Sharia Law.


I also know that Sharia is an entire framework of judicial procedure, not just a list of offenses. I also know that it is neither immutable nor all bad; I know that justifications for terrorism or violence under Sharia are tenuous at best and heavily debated among muslim scholars. If you want me to decry hardline interpretations of it, I'll happily do that; however, if you want me to say "Sharia is the worst thing ever", I won't -- just as I won't expect you to denounce the bible just because it contains passages that we believe to be barbaric nonsense today.

Now, what about your homework assignments? Have you yet explained why I "will have to decide whether to fight or join Islam"?

Because, as far as I can tell, I won't ever have to make that decision. Prove me wrong. Bonus points will be awarded for every citation and deducted for every citation I can trace to Breitbart, Infowars, Stephan Molyneux or Lauren Southern.[/quote]
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:07 pm

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

smr wrote:Yes I know the answer but you have to read the Koran to decide for yourself the answer.


Ahhh, the patented smr dodge, where you refuse to engage with arguments because running away with your fingers in your ears shouting "I WON I WON THE LIBERALS ARE SO STOOPID" counts as a valid tactic in your world.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:24 pm

smr
Commodore

Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:18 pm

The E wrote:
smr wrote:Yes I know the answer but you have to read the Koran to decide for yourself the answer.


Ahhh, the patented smr dodge, where you refuse to engage with arguments because running away with your fingers in your ears shouting "I WON I WON THE LIBERALS ARE SO STOOPID" counts as a valid tactic in your world.



So can democracy or a Republic coexist with Sharia Law?

A democracy can coexist with Islam and other religions.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:30 pm

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

Explain why I "will have to decide whether to fight or join Islam", smr.

As to your question: Are the ten commandments compatible with democracy? The answer is "the question is wrong", because the ten commandments are a guideline for personal morality, not jurisprudence; the same is true for Sharia.

But you already knew that, didn't you, smr? Noted scholar of islam that you are and all.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by Annachie   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:29 pm

Annachie
Admiral

Posts: 2052
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:36 pm

smr wrote:

So can democracy or a Republic coexist with Sharia Law?


Iran.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:39 pm

smr
Commodore

Posts: 802
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:18 pm

I bow to your great study of Islam the great scholar TheE. Oh can you forgive me for being wrong! (Total sarcasm intended!). Project out 10 years - 20 years see where this is going. I think differently than you, ultimately you will have to decide whether to be Muslim or fight. Me...I am a keyboard warrior now due to my multiple health problems. I assume you are a fairly young to middle age man and I believe a world war is coming between Jihadists and the rest of the world. I hope my beliefs and thoughts are delusional and rantings of a old man but I do not think so. I pray for all the world leaders to make the correct decisions and also I pray for you (TheE).

The E wrote:Explain why I "will have to decide whether to fight or join Islam", smr.

As to your question: Are the ten commandments compatible with democracy? The answer is "the question is wrong", because the ten commandments are a guideline for personal morality, not jurisprudence; the same is true for Sharia.

But you already knew that, didn't you, smr? Noted scholar of islam that you are and all.
Top
Re: The Trump Administration's War With Reality
Post by The E   » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:48 am

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1801
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

smr wrote:I bow to your great study of Islam the great scholar TheE. Oh can you forgive me for being wrong! (Total sarcasm intended!).


How about, instead of offering sarcasm and prayers, you do something actually useful for once and try to convince someone that you're right? In these discussions, all you do is preach; you never bother to develop arguments or support your rantings.

Like, I told you what my sources are. I told you why I believe what I believe. If you were interested in having an honest, open discussion about these issues, that's where you'd hook into and point to other sources supporting your position, but we both know that you are interested in neither openness nor honesty in these matters.

Project out 10 years - 20 years see where this is going. I think differently than you, ultimately you will have to decide whether to be Muslim or fight.


Fortunately, out here in the real world, we have these things called statistics and studies that show you to be wrong.

There are going to be crisis points in the near to mid future, yes. But they're not going to be about religious wars; climate change presents much more pressing issues than this little squabble between islam and what americans think christianity is.
As a result, the conflicts aren't going to be crusades; they're going to be humanitarian in nature with people fleeing countries that have become uninhabitable because of bullshit that could've been avoided if you and your generation hadn't insisted on being bad stewards of the environment.

Me...I am a keyboard warrior now due to my multiple health problems. I assume you are a fairly young to middle age man and I believe a world war is coming between Jihadists and the rest of the world. I hope my beliefs and thoughts are delusional and rantings of a old man but I do not think so. I pray for all the world leaders to make the correct decisions and also I pray for you (TheE).


You know what helps with these foreboding feelings? Looking beyond the limited set of news sources you're currently hooked on.
Top

Return to Politics