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EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!

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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:52 pm

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gcomeau wrote:And Manafort and Gates have surrendered to the FBI...

Papadapolous has plead guilty to obstruction of justice for lying in his FBI testimony... which means they found what he was lying about...

The consensus is this is the opening salvo from Mueller....


But remember, this is all a big nothing burger! Nothing but a Fake News witch hunt!


The current batch of indictments is related to work for the Ukranian government which they did before they worked for Trump. You hope that the Trump- Russia collusion story will pan out but no evidence yet. And every investigative journalist in the media has been trying hard for the past 12 months.

Keep in mind that a prosecuter can indict a ham sandwich and the defense lawyers haven't come into play yet. Most likely they'll get him for something (probably tax evasion) but not the entire prosecutorial wish list. He's rich with good lawyers.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:40 pm

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biochem wrote:
gcomeau wrote:And Manafort and Gates have surrendered to the FBI...

Papadapolous has plead guilty to obstruction of justice for lying in his FBI testimony... which means they found what he was lying about...

The consensus is this is the opening salvo from Mueller....


But remember, this is all a big nothing burger! Nothing but a Fake News witch hunt!


The current batch of indictments is related to work for the Ukranian government which they did before they worked for Trump.


Please stop getting your news from wherever the hell you are getting it. It's not working well for you.

This is Papadapolous's guilty plea:

https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download

The defendant, GEORGE PAPADOPOULOS, who served as a foreign policy advisor for the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump (the "Campaign"), made material false statements and material omissions during an interview with the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI'.) that took place on January 27, 2017. At the time ofthe interview, the FBI had an open investigation into the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, including the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the Campaign and Russia's efforts.


Defendant PAPADOPOULOS claimed that his interactions with an overseas professor, who defendant PAPADOPOULOS understood to have substantial connections to Russian government officials, occurred before defendant PAPADOPOULOS became a foreign policy adviser to the Campaign. Defendant PAPADOPOULOS acknowledged that the professor had told him about the Russians possessing "dirt" on then-candidate Hillary Clinton in the form of"thousands of emails," but stated multiple times that he learned that information prior to joining the Campaign. In truth and in fact, however, defendant PAPADOPOULOS learned he would be an advisor to the Campaign in early March, and met the professor on or about March 14, 2016; the professor only took interest in defendant PAPADOPOULOS because of his status with the Campaign; and the professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS about the "thousands of emails" on or about April 26, 2016, when defendant PAPADOPOULOS had been a foreign policy adviser to the Campaign for over a month.


Defendant PAPADOPOULOS claimed he met a certain female Russian national before he joined the Campaign and that their communications consisted of emails such as, '"Hi , how are you?"' In truth and in fact, however, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met the female Russian national on or about March 24, 2016, after he had become an adviser to the Campaign; he believed that she had connections to Russian government officials; and he sought to use her Russian connections over a period of months in an effort to arrange a meeting between the Campaign and Russian government officials.



On or about April 26, 2016, defendant PAPADOPOULOS met the Professor for breakfast at a London hotel. During this meeting, the Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that he had just returned from a trip to Moscow where he had met with high level Russian government officials. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS that on that trip he (the Professor) learned that the Russians had obtained "dirt" on then-candidate
Clinton. The Professor told defendant PAPADOPOULOS, as defendant PAPADOPOULOS later described to the FBI, that "They [the Russians] have dirt on her"; "the Russians had emails
ofClinton"; "they have thousands of emails."

15. Following that conversation, defendant PAPADOPOULOS continued to correspond with Campaign officials, and continued to communicate with the Professor and the Russian MF A Connection, in an effort to arrange a meeting between the Campaign and the Russian government.




Etc...

And the activities Manafort is in hot water over *began* before the campaign, they did not however end before it. And there is a rather pointed question of why and how Paul Manafort somehow ended up running that campaign in the first place.



But yeah, keep believing the WH and Fox News spin that this has nothing to do with Russia or the campaign... :roll:
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Eyal   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:18 am

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biochem wrote:Actually right now the person I would most like to see investigated is Cromey. More and more keeps coming out about him. It's looking like he wanted to be J Edgar Hoover. Hoover controlled presidents and ruled Washington. When he said jump powerful politicians from both parties said how high. Or at least that is the legend. It's looking more and more that Cromey wanted that kind of power over both parties (for real not just in legend).


How do you figure that? I mean, if that had been Comey's intent, it would have made a lot more sense to drag the Clinton investigation past the election, where it could be used as blackmail material if she'd won. Instead, his conduct before the election basically made both sides furious with him, so it's not even good for ingratiating himself to them.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:38 am

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Eyal wrote:
biochem wrote:Actually right now the person I would most like to see investigated is Cromey. More and more keeps coming out about him. It's looking like he wanted to be J Edgar Hoover. Hoover controlled presidents and ruled Washington. When he said jump powerful politicians from both parties said how high. Or at least that is the legend. It's looking more and more that Cromey wanted that kind of power over both parties (for real not just in legend).


How do you figure that? I mean, if that had been Comey's intent, it would have made a lot more sense to drag the Clinton investigation past the election, where it could be used as blackmail material if she'd won. Instead, his conduct before the election basically made both sides furious with him, so it's not even good for ingratiating himself to them.


Right wing Fox news talk radio conspiracies don't actually have to make sense...

Sure Comey's conduct during the election was highly questionable, but the idea that he was trying to become a power behind the throne with what he was doing is laughably absurd. He was actively trying to gain some separation from Trump FFS, asking his superiors to please run interference and not leave him alone in a room with the guy who kept making highly inappropriate overtures about loyalty to him. You don't do that if you're trying to gain influence over him.

But it creates something to get outraged about that isn't Donald Trump and his administration so large segments of the right will eat it up no matter how ridiculous it is to avoid having to face the mounting realization of how incredibly badly they fucked up when they voted.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:35 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
But it creates something to get outraged about that isn't Donald Trump and his administration so large segments of the right will eat it up no matter how ridiculous it is to avoid having to face the mounting realization of how incredibly badly they fucked up when they voted.


This contempt toward voters who disagree with you helped Trump get elected and if you (broad you referring to Democrats as a whole) keep it up it will lead to Trump's re-election in 2020.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:55 pm

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Eyal wrote:
biochem wrote:Actually right now the person I would most like to see investigated is Cromey. More and more keeps coming out about him. It's looking like he wanted to be J Edgar Hoover. Hoover controlled presidents and ruled Washington. When he said jump powerful politicians from both parties said how high. Or at least that is the legend. It's looking more and more that Cromey wanted that kind of power over both parties (for real not just in legend).


How do you figure that? I mean, if that had been Comey's intent, it would have made a lot more sense to drag the Clinton investigation past the election, where it could be used as blackmail material if she'd won. Instead, his conduct before the election basically made both sides furious with him, so it's not even good for ingratiating himself to them.


That what I thought last fall (and last summer for that matter) when it seemed like Comey was honorable and trying to be bipartisan.

Then it came out that the biggest leaker in Washington was him. The FBI is tasked with tracking down and prosecuting leakers which is a little hard to do when the head of the FBI is the criminal in question.

And it came out that he was writing the exoneration of Hillary before he'd even done the investigation i.e. The first exoneration was pre- determined.

And that is just the stuff that is proven. There is a long list of rumors which is part of the reason we need the investigation part of the investigation - rumors may or may not be true. At this point it is unknown. Rumors include indirect financial ties to the Clinton foundation, deliberate leaking of the Steele dossier when he knew it was false, using evidence he knew was fraudulent to obtain FISA warrants, lying to congress, etc etc.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Eyal   » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:52 am

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biochem wrote:That what I thought last fall (and last summer for that matter) when it seemed like Comey was honorable and trying to be bipartisan.

Then it came out that the biggest leaker in Washington was him. The FBI is tasked with tracking down and prosecuting leakers which is a little hard to do when the head of the FBI is the criminal in question.

And it came out that he was writing the exoneration of Hillary before he'd even done the investigation i.e. The first exoneration was pre- determined.


Reportedly, the FBI had largely concluded in April that there was insufficient evidence to charge Clinton. And the opinion of the majority of legal experts for months before that was that she wouldn't be charged.

And if his goal had been to exonerate Clinton - well, first of all, how does that benefit him? Once she's exonerated, he had little leverage over her. Furthermore, had his intent been to support her, he wouldn't have dragged the investigation into July (just before the convention, IIRC) or, more importantly, issued that public tongue-lashing along with the exoneration (something which was arguably unethical on his part). Nor would he have sent that later letter to Chaffetz (which he was aware could be politicized, and he didn't know at that point whether the new emails were relevant or not) which arguably lost her the election (it certainly played a part).

My own theory - Comey has long been know to dislike the Clintons, since the Whitewater affair. He pushed as hard as he could to harm her election but had sufficient integrity as to not cross the line into actually recommending false charges or fabricating evidence.

And that is just the stuff that is proven. There is a long list of rumors which is part of the reason we need the investigation part of the investigation - rumors may or may not be true. At this point it is unknown. Rumors include indirect financial ties to the Clinton foundation, deliberate leaking of the Steele dossier when he knew it was false, using evidence he knew was fraudulent to obtain FISA warrants, lying to congress, etc etc.


You realize parts of the dossier have been corroborated?

And it's curious how those rumors started coming out only once he announced he wouldn't recommend charges against Clinton and later when he charged him...it's reminiscent of how Mueller, highly praised by the GOP not long ago, has suddenly become the target of a smear campaign,
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:48 pm

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biochem wrote:
Eyal wrote:How do you figure that? I mean, if that had been Comey's intent, it would have made a lot more sense to drag the Clinton investigation past the election, where it could be used as blackmail material if she'd won. Instead, his conduct before the election basically made both sides furious with him, so it's not even good for ingratiating himself to them.


That what I thought last fall (and last summer for that matter) when it seemed like Comey was honorable and trying to be bipartisan.

Then it came out that the biggest leaker in Washington was him. The FBI is tasked with tracking down and prosecuting leakers which is a little hard to do when the head of the FBI is the criminal in question.


To my knowledge the only thing Comey "leaked" was his own non classified memos that were written specifically for the purposes of being publicly distributable if needed. Was there something I missed?

And it came out that he was writing the exoneration of Hillary before he'd even done the investigation i.e. The first exoneration was pre- determined.


Or, the first investigation was essentially complete except for some wrapping up work and it was *absurdly obvious* what the conclusion was so he got started with his paperwork.

Sigh.

And that is just the stuff that is proven. There is a long list of rumors which is part of the reason we need the investigation part of the investigation - rumors may or may not be true. At this point it is unknown. Rumors include indirect financial ties to the Clinton foundation,


What the hell is it with right wingers and the Clinton Foundation???? Seriously? I mean besides the fact that it has the name "Clinton" on it, what makes you lose your freaking minds over it? WTF about "ties" to a 501(c)(3) non profit do you think warrants investigation???

deliberate leaking of the Steele dossier when he knew it was false,


That would be a neat trick considering I have yet to see a single aspect of the dossier proven false and multiple claims it makes have been confirmed by independent investigation and reporting.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:15 pm

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And the author himself gave it to the press.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by pappilon   » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:43 am

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Annachie wrote:And the author himself gave it to the press.


I thought the "Golden Shower" part was considered less-than-reliable.

I think Trumpm is more afraid that the investigation will skewer his claim of being a billionaire, thus destroying his cred in the real estate game than he is about collusion with Russia.

And the legal claim is not that Trump himself cut a deal with Russia, but that his campaign ie members of his campaign staff did, with or without his consent. which is fairly proven with the guilty plea despite assertionsthat theguy was nothing more than a "gofer".
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