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EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!

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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Eyal   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:52 pm

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biochem wrote:
If the memo's allegations are true, that would mean that the investigation against Page was tainted. But wasn't the administration saying that Page was an insignificant part of the campaign? So why would it affect any investigation against Trump?

More seriously, Even Trey Gowdy - who, unlike Nunes, did read the FISA documents - is saying that he still has full faith in Meuller's investigation.



1. The indirect effect

Trump now has a legitimate reason to fire James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente and Rod Rosenstein. Comney and Yates are already gone. McCabe is on leave until retirement (1-month). Rosenstein and Boente are still there and could be fired. Rosenstein is in charge of supervising Mueller. If he were fired, in theory he could be replaced by a Trump loyalist.

2. The tip of the iceberg

There appears to be a small group at the top of the FBI & DOJ, who were misusing their positions to investigate Page, using bad info to get warrants. What else did they cut corners on? Everything those individuals did is now questionable. Some of them influenced the Mueller investigation.

3. Fruit of the Poisoned Tree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_ ... onous_tree

If the "poisoned" Page warrant led to evidence which led to other warrants, those warrants may now be invalid. Fruit of a poison tree is murky in practice, with lots of caveats. So it's hard to say for sure.



All the above reasons do not necessarily mean that the Mueller investigation will be impacted, but they are routes by which it might be possible.


On what grounds? Even Nunes is now conceding that the FISA applciation did note the dossier was political - his argument seems to have morphed from "the FBI did not disclose the information" to the "FBI did not emphasize it enough". And it's highly arguable whether disclosing the dossier's source as oppo research would even matter, especially as they wouldn't have gotten an order based on that alone.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:16 pm

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Kelly just told the press Trump hasn't read the Schiff memo yet because it is "quite lengthy".

He's had it for almost a full day.

It's 10 pages long.

He's spent time during that day tweeting about stories he was watching on Fox News.

Remember, he's a "very stable genius".
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by smr   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:30 pm

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Amen brother! Let the light be shown upon the darkness. Trust not the lips of man rather trust man's deeds and accomplishments. So far their have been no known evidence to continue the Trump investigation. The memo appears to show a senior level group of DOJ and FBI trying to force Trump from office. The emails, texts, and recorded conversations seem to point at some suits that were particularly partisan (sound familiar Gcomeau). Gcomeau, we have sworn testimony by Comey saying that Trump dossier is factual inaccurate. Clapper also testified under oath that the dossier was false. So either you are misinformed or your politics rule the thinking processes within the brain. I would bet the latter!

biochem wrote:
If the memo's allegations are true, that would mean that the investigation against Page was tainted. But wasn't the administration saying that Page was an insignificant part of the campaign? So why would it affect any investigation against Trump?

More seriously, Even Trey Gowdy - who, unlike Nunes, did read the FISA documents - is saying that he still has full faith in Meuller's investigation.



1. The indirect effect

Trump now has a legitimate reason to fire James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente and Rod Rosenstein. Comney and Yates are already gone. McCabe is on leave until retirement (1-month). Rosenstein and Boente are still there and could be fired. Rosenstein is in charge of supervising Mueller. If he were fired, in theory he could be replaced by a Trump loyalist.

2. The tip of the iceberg

There appears to be a small group at the top of the FBI & DOJ, who were misusing their positions to investigate Page, using bad info to get warrants. What else did they cut corners on? Everything those individuals did is now questionable. Some of them influenced the Mueller investigation.

3. Fruit of the Poisoned Tree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_ ... onous_tree

If the "poisoned" Page warrant led to evidence which led to other warrants, those warrants may now be invalid. Fruit of a poison tree is murky in practice, with lots of caveats. So it's hard to say for sure.



All the above reasons do not necessarily mean that the Mueller investigation will be impacted, but they are routes by which it might be possible.

Trump appears to be indulging in some wishful thinking. That is normal, most people would be.

Gowdy may have faith in Mueller. I certainly don't. His first act was to hire a bunch of people who hated Trump to work for him, which doesn't inspire confidence in his impartiality. The only people I trust to run the Mueller investigation at this point are the civil liberties people for example: Paul and Dershowitz. I would love to see Mueller replace by Dershowitz (Paul is a senator and is too busy with the day job; Dershowitz is retired). But there are other notable civil libertarians who could be pulled in as well.

Comment from the federalist on the FBI

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/05/if- ... orruption/
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:45 pm

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smr wrote:Amen brother! Let the light be shown upon the darkness. Trust not the lips of man rather trust man's deeds and accomplishments. So far their have been no known evidence to continue the Trump investigation. The memo appears to show a senior level group of DOJ and FBI trying to force Trump from office. The emails, texts, and recorded conversations seem to point at some suits that were particularly partisan (sound familiar Gcomeau).


Familiar in that it's the same paranoid delusional conspiracy theory fantasizing that has been pushed by the right for quite a while now? Yes, it does indeed sound familiar.

Gcomeau, we have sworn testimony by Comey saying that Trump dossier is factual inaccurate.


No you do not.

He said, quite a long time ago now, that PARTS OF IT were "salacious and unverified".

Neither one of those words means "factually inaccurate". And you know what you can do with things that are unverified?

Verify them.

Which has been happening for many months now.

Clapper also testified under oath that the dossier was false.


Sigh.... no he has not. The only thing he said was that back when they first got it and were compiling the intelligence assessment on the Russia issue they had been unable to corroborate the sourcing. Again, that does not even REMOTELY call it inaccurate.

This is the relevent section of Clapper's testimony when he was asked about the dossier (and then Yates was asked a follow-up)

GRAHAM: OK, that makes perfect sense to me. Follow up on that, are you familiar with a dossier about Mr. Trump compiled with some guy in England?

CLAPPER: I am.

GRAHAM: Did you find that to be a credible report?

CLAPPER: Well, we didn't make a judgment on that. And that's — that's one reason why we did not include it in the body of our intelligence community assessment.

GRAHAM: You didn't find it credible enough to be included?

CLAPPER: We couldn't corroborate the sourcing, particularly the second -- third-order sources.

GRAHAM: Ms. Yates, are you familiar with the dossier?

YATES: (OFF-MIKE)

CLAPPER: Microphone.

GRAHAM: Microphone.

YATES: If I could try to clarify one answer before as well, because I think, Senator Graham, you may have misunderstood me. You asked me whether I was aware of any evidence of collusion, and I declined to answer because answering would reveal classified information.


Not having made a judgement on the credibility of that dossier.... YET.... was not a statement the dossier was factually inaccurate.

Stop getting your "news" from Alex Jones and Sean Hannity and you'll stop repeatedly embarrassing yourself like this.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by smr   » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:39 pm

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Thank you for proving my point specifically! We all have issues that we are not objective about and the response received was anything but logical or objective. Hey do you here the roar from Texas that is me laughing at you. Do you think I care about what you think...are you my neighbor, my wife, and/or fellow Christians? No, then your opinion of me means absolutely nada or zero in my world view! I spent 8 days in ICU, I was not supposed to live yet here I am. My organs were hours away from complete failure. I could not walk a 100 yards. I spent so much time watching C-Span (HGTV and cooking network) and watching them interrogate FBI Director Comey in open hearings. I more than certain what he said under Oath because I was stuck at home recovering. All this happened to me from a little microbe that attacked my prostate. So please go check your facts first before attacking others without knowing the truth. By the way, I knew I had scored a direct hit when you turned it personal. I voted against Hilary not for Trump. I will be voting for Trump for his 2nd term. By the way, I am not objective where Hilary is concerned but at least I'm honest with myself about the truth. My 3 potential candidates went down in flames. Has Hell frozen over yet...no Sir Hell has not frozen over yet. The other candidate was getting my vote no matter what. I voted for Trump over Hilary.

gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:Amen brother! Let the light be shown upon the darkness. Trust not the lips of man rather trust man's deeds and accomplishments. So far their have been no known evidence to continue the Trump investigation. The memo appears to show a senior level group of DOJ and FBI trying to force Trump from office. The emails, texts, and recorded conversations seem to point at some suits that were particularly partisan (sound familiar Gcomeau).


Familiar in that it's the same paranoid delusional conspiracy theory fantasizing that has been pushed by the right for quite a while now? Yes, it does indeed sound familiar.

Gcomeau, we have sworn testimony by Comey saying that Trump dossier is factual inaccurate.


No you do not.

He said, quite a long time ago now, that PARTS OF IT were "salacious and unverified".

Neither one of those words means "factually inaccurate". And you know what you can do with things that are unverified?

Verify them.

Which has been happening for many months now.

Clapper also testified under oath that the dossier was false.


Sigh.... no he has not. The only thing he said was that back when they first got it and were compiling the intelligence assessment on the Russia issue they had been unable to corroborate the sourcing. Again, that does not even REMOTELY call it inaccurate.

This is the relevent section of Clapper's testimony when he was asked about the dossier (and then Yates was asked a follow-up)

GRAHAM: OK, that makes perfect sense to me. Follow up on that, are you familiar with a dossier about Mr. Trump compiled with some guy in England?

CLAPPER: I am.

GRAHAM: Did you find that to be a credible report?

CLAPPER: Well, we didn't make a judgment on that. And that's — that's one reason why we did not include it in the body of our intelligence community assessment.

GRAHAM: You didn't find it credible enough to be included?

CLAPPER: We couldn't corroborate the sourcing, particularly the second -- third-order sources.

GRAHAM: Ms. Yates, are you familiar with the dossier?

YATES: (OFF-MIKE)

CLAPPER: Microphone.

GRAHAM: Microphone.

YATES: If I could try to clarify one answer before as well, because I think, Senator Graham, you may have misunderstood me. You asked me whether I was aware of any evidence of collusion, and I declined to answer because answering would reveal classified information.


Not having made a judgement on the credibility of that dossier.... YET.... was not a statement the dossier was factually inaccurate.

Stop getting your "news" from Alex Jones and Sean Hannity and you'll stop repeatedly embarrassing yourself like this.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:31 am

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smr.

Pretty sure that if you want to claim that Comey described something as "Factually inaccurate" you had better provide the link to it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Eyal   » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:51 am

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smr wrote:Thank you for proving my point specifically! We all have issues that we are not objective about and the response received was anything but logical or objective. Hey do you here the roar from Texas that is me laughing at you. Do you think I care about what you think...are you my neighbor, my wife, and/or fellow Christians? No, then your opinion of me means absolutely nada or zero in my world view! I spent 8 days in ICU, I was not supposed to live yet here I am. My organs were hours away from complete failure. I could not walk a 100 yards. I spent so much time watching C-Span (HGTV and cooking network) and watching them interrogate FBI Director Comey in open hearings. I more than certain what he said under Oath because I was stuck at home recovering. All this happened to me from a little microbe that attacked my prostate. So please go check your facts first before attacking others without knowing the truth. By the way, I knew I had scored a direct hit when you turned it personal. I voted against Hilary not for Trump. I will be voting for Trump for his 2nd term. By the way, I am not objective where Hilary is concerned but at least I'm honest with myself about the truth. My 3 potential candidates went down in flames. Has Hell frozen over yet...no Sir Hell has not frozen over yet. The other candidate was getting my vote no matter what. I voted for Trump over Hilary.


You didn't actually disprove gcomeau's arguments there in any way...
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by The E   » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:16 am

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smr wrote:Thank you for proving my point specifically! We all have issues that we are not objective about and the response received was anything but logical or objective. Hey do you here the roar from Texas that is me laughing at you. Do you think I care about what you think...are you my neighbor, my wife, and/or fellow Christians? No, then your opinion of me means absolutely nada or zero in my world view!


And yet, you are here spending time on the attempt to debunk what gcomeau or I or others are saying.
Why would you do that, if you didn't care or if our opinions didn't matter to you?

I spent 8 days in ICU, I was not supposed to live yet here I am. My organs were hours away from complete failure. I could not walk a 100 yards. I spent so much time watching C-Span (HGTV and cooking network) and watching them interrogate FBI Director Comey in open hearings. I more than certain what he said under Oath because I was stuck at home recovering.


Then it shouldn't be that hard for you to find links to video excerpts or transcripts proving your assertions, shouldn't it? You see, you're here talking about what you think is true. gcomeau posted what actually happened. That, to my mind, makes gcomeau a more trustable person than you are.

With every post in which you refuse to post verifiable sources, your credibility sinks.

You know, I can actually see why you like Trump now.

All this happened to me from a little microbe that attacked my prostate. So please go check your facts first before attacking others without knowing the truth. By the way, I knew I had scored a direct hit when you turned it personal. I voted against Hilary not for Trump. I will be voting for Trump for his 2nd term. By the way, I am not objective where Hilary is concerned but at least I'm honest with myself about the truth. My 3 potential candidates went down in flames. Has Hell frozen over yet...no Sir Hell has not frozen over yet. The other candidate was getting my vote no matter what. I voted for Trump over Hilary.


In an earlier thread, you were remote-diagnosing me and others (and, by extension, anyone who has differing opinions from you when it comes to Trump) with something you termed "Trump derangement syndrome": The willful act of believing anything bad said about Trump.

That same statement can be turned around on you: You are suffering from TDS as well. You believe everything Trump says, you willfully misremember or lie about things because they make your decision to vote for Trump more palatable.

After all, no right-thinking, moral person would be happy with the idea that their vote helped to push a habitual liar and narcissist into the highest office of your country, a man whose instincts and reflexes promote sycophants and opportunists around him, a leader who is so ineffective that even with a majority in both houses, he can't get his agenda worked on.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:27 am

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A man, who's greatest, positive, achievement as President is likely be his addition to a certain Simpson's song.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:53 am

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Normal person who dislikes Trump vs TDS

Normal person - stupid joke
TDS - takes it seriously

Normal person - I don't like x, but I like his plan for infrastructure (or judges depending on which side of the political spectrum)
TDS - Hates everything, even things they previously liked

Normal person - Trump is annoying, obnoxious etc
TDS - Trump is insane

Normal person - Who could we find to run in 2020
TDS - Impeach Trump

Normal person - OK a good platform for 2018 would be policy 1, policy 2, policy 3
TDS- A good platform for 2018 is Hate Trump
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