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EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!

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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:32 am

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And so it progresses along the lines we all knew it would. Trump jumped on twitter today claiming the memo showed

"The top Leadership and Investigators of the FBI and the Justice Department have politicized the sacred investigative process in favor of Democrats and against Republicans - something which would have been unthinkable just a short time ago..."


The top leadership at FBI and DOJ are not just Republicans, they are Trump appointed Republicans.

*Attorney General? Sessions. Trump appointed. Republican.
*Deputy Attorney General overseeing the Mueller probe due to Sessions recusal? Rosenstein. Trump appointed. Republican.

*Head of the FBI? Wray. Trump appointed. Republican.

*Mueller? Appointed by Rosenstein who was himself Trump appointed. Republican.

And Trump is STILL willing to try to convince his base that they are so politically biased AGAINST REPUBLICANS AND IN FAVOR OF DEMOCRATS they are weaponizing the DOJ and FBI and the FISA system (remember ROSENSTEIN signed off on FISA surveillance of Page) against Republicans... in a desperate effort to try to discredit a law enforcement action he knows he is the target of. And the truly dangerous thing is his base is so far gone in conspiracy theory Fox News Breitbart alternate reality land a lot of them will actually believe this utterly insane bullshit.

The long term damage this is doing to the ability of the nation to function is hard to describe. They've already had Nunes seriously jeopardize the ability of House Intel to act as an oversight body over any intelligence agency because good luck having them turn over classified data the next time they get asked for it after this stunt. Now this.... the president of the United States basically incriminating the impartiality of the entire institution of the DOJ and FBI by attacking HIS OWN APPOINTEES as so politically biased against him they are letting that influence the functioning of their departments.

His desperation to get this investigation killed is becoming more frantic by the day.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:54 pm

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And the memo is out.

And good grief is it just as pathetic as expected.

Let's go point by point.



1. The FBI got authorization to surveil Carter Page in Oct 2016. It had to be authorized by a bunch of people like any FISA warrant does.

2. When the FISA renewal came up under Trump's appointed Assistant AG he reviewed it and ALSO signed off on it.

All normal so far...

3. The dossier was an "essential part" of the FISA application. We are left to rely entirely on Nunes word for this as he has not provided any of the other supporting material used, the FBI has specifically called him out on that, but nobody can look at it because it is classified.

4. Claims Steele was paid by the DNC to get dirt on Trump!!!! We know this is a lie. Steele was hired as a subcontractor by Fusion GPS and the directive he was given was, basically, "please go find out what Trump's visits to Russia were all about, we can't figure out what he kept doing when he went there". He was not told to "dig up dirt". He was not even aware of who Fusion GPS's clients were. And when he was initially sent to investigate their client was a Republican media outfit, not the DNC or Clinton. This is all in the transcripts of GPS's sworn testimony before Congress and the Senate. Nunes knows this. He is lying deliberately here.

5. The FBI didn't tell the judge authorizing the warrant that lie I just made up!

6. Steele talked to the media (because that was actually part of his job), therefore all his information is discredited???

7. The allied intelligence asset that had found significant evidence Trump was compromised by Russia had some strong feelings about the guy compromosed by Russia becoming president. (Ummm.... duh?). Therefore all his information is biased!

8. Claims the FBI hid Steele's "anti Truump financial and ideological motivations.

Steele HAD NO anti Trump financial motivations. He was paid to collect information, good or bad. And an intelligence asset finding that kind of information then developing negative feelings about the person he found that information on is pretty much expected. If this was grounds for disqualifying that evidence every criminal on earth would be off the hook. "Look judge! This cop neglected to tell us that after he found the defendant standing over the dead body holding the smoking gun pointed at the victim he developed negative feelings about the defendant's character and thought he should go to prison! WHAT A SCANDALOUS OMISSION OF HIS BIAS! ALL THIS EVIDENCE NEEDS TO BE THROWN OUT!"

9. At early stages after the Dossier began to be investigated it was referred to as "salacious and unverified". Nunes appear to think those words mean "not credible and false". They do not. And the "unverified" part has become less true by the day since then.


10. An FBI agent thought Trump was a douche and idiot. So? FBI agents are actually allowed to have opinions. And the FBI agent in question was one of the authors of the letter to Congress about the Clinton e-mail investigation the week before the election that likely resulted in Trump winning the election. So yeah, obviously he was involved in a nefarious anti-Trump FBI conspiracy. :roll:


Aaaaand..... THAT'S THE WHOLE MEMO. Are you freaking kidding me? There is nothing here that actually provides evidence of FISA abuses. At all. It's just Nunes cherry picking info from a classified intelligence dump that he personally doesn't like and writing an outraged gripe memo about it.

For this he, and Trump, and the rest of the GOP, compromised House Intelligence's oversight relationship with the entire intelligence commmunity. For THIS.... juvenile whine fest.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:16 pm

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The absolute worst thing about the memo and the alledged FISA abuses, is that it makes the Alex Jones headlines and memo release on the same subject look like reasonable journalism.

Well, maybe not the absolute thing. ;)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:50 pm

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Given how loud the DEMOCRATS were screaming in advance I expected it to implicate Obama directly. But we basically have top level Obama people at the DOJ and FBI abusing the FISA authority. Fortunately the problem was limited at a few individuals. The greater FBI and DOJ were not implicated. Given that the FISA court rubber stamps everything. This sort of abuse was inevitable.

This guy says it better than I do

Ben Shapiro (Republican who hates Trump)
https://www.dailywire.com/news/26693/5- ... en-shapiro

Shapiro is about as close as you can get to fair and balanced on Trump. Most other sources are less rational. Trump supporters are too excited and Trump haters have too much hatred in their hearts to be rational.


Rand Paul (libertarian Republican) has been complaining to deaf ears for years regarding FISA. There needs to be addition checks and balances put in place. Dershowitz (libertarian Democrat) has also been sounding civil liberty bills for years. I'd love to see a Paul/Dershowitz bill passed. Those are about the only 2 I'd trust to write it.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by smr   » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:33 pm

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False Trump dossier basis for Special Independent Counsel for collusion with Russia ny Trump. Then the investigation of Trump needs to be terminated. The FBI and DOJ lied to the FISC. Also, that is one of two reasons that Mueller delayed sentencing Mike Flynn in last week of January 2017. Seccond, Petet Scholk lied on his 303 which was the basis of the indictment of Michael Flynn. (lying to the FBI!) So, I expect the Mueller probe will be ended.

I have read the FISA application and that was a complete waste of time because the evidence is unknown or blacked out.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:25 pm

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biochem wrote:Given how loud the DEMOCRATS were screaming in advance I expected it to implicate Obama directly. But we basically have top level Obama people at the DOJ and FBI abusing the FISA authority.


That memo contained not one single FISA abuse.

Not. One.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:58 pm

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smr wrote:False Trump dossier basis for Special Independent Counsel for collusion with Russia ny Trump.


1. As has been pointed out here many times, the dossier has only been corroborated to greater and greater degree as time has passed.

There is zero grounds for your claim it is false.

2. Nunes was lying about it being the basis. It was simply one among many lines of evidence.

3. You didn't read the memo did you? Specifically the last paragraph where... oopsie... they admit the FBI counterintelligence investigation into Trump campaign personnel was already in progress BEFORE the dossier, thus making it impossible the dossier was the basis of the investigation.

Wow, that was a lot to get wrong in one sentence. Congratulations?


Then the investigation of Trump needs to be terminated. The FBI and DOJ lied to the FISC.


No... they did not.

Also, that is one of two reasons that Mueller delayed sentencing Mike Flynn in last week of January 2017.


If you actually believe that you are even more pathetically deep in delusion than I thought.

Sentencing was delayed because his sentence is contingent, since he has a plea deal that requires his cooperation with investigators, with the quality of his assistance to the investigation. And he's still in the process of assisting.

Seccond, Petet Scholk lied on his 303 which was the basis of the indictment of Michael Flynn. (lying to the FBI!)


Again.... no... he did not.

So, I expect the Mueller probe will be ended.


Prepare to be dissapointed.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Eyal   » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:15 am

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gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:False Trump dossier basis for Special Independent Counsel for collusion with Russia ny Trump.


1. As has been pointed out here many times, the dossier has only been corroborated to greater and greater degree as time has passed.

There is zero grounds for your claim it is false.

2. Nunes was lying about it being the basis. It was simply one among many lines of evidence.

3. You didn't read the memo did you? Specifically the last paragraph where... oopsie... they admit the FBI counterintelligence investigation into Trump campaign personnel was already in progress BEFORE the dossier, thus making it impossible the dossier was the basis of the investigation.

Wow, that was a lot to get wrong in one sentence. Congratulations?


Then the investigation of Trump needs to be terminated. The FBI and DOJ lied to the FISC.


No... they did not.

Also, that is one of two reasons that Mueller delayed sentencing Mike Flynn in last week of January 2017.


If you actually believe that you are even more pathetically deep in delusion than I thought.

Sentencing was delayed because his sentence is contingent, since he has a plea deal that requires his cooperation with investigators, with the quality of his assistance to the investigation. And he's still in the process of assisting.

Seccond, Petet Scholk lied on his 303 which was the basis of the indictment of Michael Flynn. (lying to the FBI!)


Again.... no... he did not.

So, I expect the Mueller probe will be ended.


Prepare to be dissapointed.


More amusingly...

If the memo's allegations are true, that would mean that the investigation against Page was tainted. But wasn't the administration saying that Page was an insignificant part of the campaign? So why would it affect any investigation against Trump?

More seriously, Even Trey Gowdy - who, unlike Nunes, did read the FISA documents - is saying that he still has full faith in Meuller's investigation.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:11 am

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If the memo's allegations are true, that would mean that the investigation against Page was tainted. But wasn't the administration saying that Page was an insignificant part of the campaign? So why would it affect any investigation against Trump?

More seriously, Even Trey Gowdy - who, unlike Nunes, did read the FISA documents - is saying that he still has full faith in Meuller's investigation.



1. The indirect effect

Trump now has a legitimate reason to fire James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente and Rod Rosenstein. Comney and Yates are already gone. McCabe is on leave until retirement (1-month). Rosenstein and Boente are still there and could be fired. Rosenstein is in charge of supervising Mueller. If he were fired, in theory he could be replaced by a Trump loyalist.

2. The tip of the iceberg

There appears to be a small group at the top of the FBI & DOJ, who were misusing their positions to investigate Page, using bad info to get warrants. What else did they cut corners on? Everything those individuals did is now questionable. Some of them influenced the Mueller investigation.

3. Fruit of the Poisoned Tree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_ ... onous_tree

If the "poisoned" Page warrant led to evidence which led to other warrants, those warrants may now be invalid. Fruit of a poison tree is murky in practice, with lots of caveats. So it's hard to say for sure.



All the above reasons do not necessarily mean that the Mueller investigation will be impacted, but they are routes by which it might be possible.

Trump appears to be indulging in some wishful thinking. That is normal, most people would be.

Gowdy may have faith in Mueller. I certainly don't. His first act was to hire a bunch of people who hated Trump to work for him, which doesn't inspire confidence in his impartiality. The only people I trust to run the Mueller investigation at this point are the civil liberties people for example: Paul and Dershowitz. I would love to see Mueller replace by Dershowitz (Paul is a senator and is too busy with the day job; Dershowitz is retired). But there are other notable civil libertarians who could be pulled in as well.

Comment from the federalist on the FBI

http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/05/if- ... orruption/
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:33 am

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biochem wrote:

1. The indirect effect

Trump now has a legitimate reason to fire James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Sally Yates, Dana Boente and Rod Rosenstein.


And that reason is WHAT?

Show us the reason in that memo bio. We'll wait.


2. The tip of the iceberg

There appears to be a small group at the top of the FBI & DOJ, who were misusing their positions to investigate Page, using bad info to get warrants.


And the memo established that *where*?

Please note, even if Nunes' claim the warrants were dependent on the dossier was true... which we know it is not, assuming you even care about the truth at this point... Nunes just ranting the dossier is bad info doesn't magically make it bad info.


3. Fruit of the Poisoned Tree

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_ ... onous_tree

If the "poisoned" Page warrant



There is no poisoned Page warrant.

Wake up.
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