PeterZ wrote:You truly are ignorant of American conservatives, aren't you?
Do you know what it is we try to conserve? Do you care? I believe you don't and simply ascribe some perceived motive to us that fits your prejudice.
Let me enlighten you, no matter how useless the gesture may end up being. Conservatives in the US are constitutional conservatives. We believe in the Constitution as the supreme law of the land and that it is the best document for ensuring our liberties as it exists now. Libertarians tend to believe the current interpretation of the Constitution allows too much power to our agents in government. Progressives believe that the current interpretation of our Constitution is simply a stage in an ongoing process of societal evolution.
So the group that ignores the constitution, that tries the most to change it, is the conservative group?
Ignoring the requirement to vet judges, far right conservatives.
Wanting to limit all free speech, far right conservatives.
Wanting to bring in religious laws in violation of the constitution, Far right conservatives.
Ignoring the second amendment, every damn politician in the USA, but particularly bad in the case of far right conservatives who try to limit it for specific groups as opposed to everybody.
Ignoring the fourth amendment, far right conservatives again. Damn, what is it about due process that they don't like?
Likewise the due process inherent in the fifth amendment. Far right conservatives again.
The far right is not looking good for being the defenders of the US constitution are they. lets continue.
sixth amendment. Hmm, which political party has a history of limiting the rights of people to have a lawyer? Three guesses, first two don't count.
eighth amendment? Damn if it isn't far right conservatives violating the shit out of that one too.
ninth? Guess what? Yeppers. Today in fact. Right to health. Down the shitter.
Tenth? Well, OK every party fucks with that one to force through their political ideology.
(Side note: Kind of weird that the 9th and 10th clash like that. The fed only have the powers attributed to it, but the fed are supposed to be the protector of rights, including those rights not attributed to it. )
I do not ascribe malicious motives to Progressives, even though they want to fundamentally change our liberties over time. Those folks tend to believe such change is for the best. Progressive politicians are another breed of animal. They see the aggregation of power as an end in itself and liberty is a thing that would limit the power they can gather to themselves. I perhaps shouldn't say progressive politicians, since all politicians will want to aggregate power to themselves.
Personally, I don't ascribe malicious motives to conservatives. Far right evangelical types, yes. But they are a different beast.
But to say that progressives want to fundamentally change liberties over time is just flat out wrong.
Progressives want to expand access to liberties.
It was progressives who freed the slaves, expanding their liberties.
It was/is progressives advocating for equality of the sexes, expanding liberties there.
It's progressives who are advocating for equality of the races, to get minorities equal liberties.
It is far right evangelical conservatives who are fighting them tooth and nail.
To limit liberties for all who aren't far right wing evangelicals.
You are literally 100% wrong on what you are saying.
You on the other hand seem to always assume as you did in this post that those that disagree with you must have base and selfish motives for their views. That's pure prejudice.
No, just anyone who can be described as 'Far' or 'Extremist'.
Leftist philosophies led us to Communism and the massive inequalities found in that system.
Case in point, communism, or rather marxist/Lenninism, is an extreme political position.
I could equally point out that right philosophies led to nazism, fascism, pol pot, and a whole host of others.
Those with political power could and did do things to those without the power that couldn't have happened in the most conservative parts of the US. Conservative US citizens donate massive amounts to charitable organizations around the world. Conservative donate more that liberals year after year.
You've already been corrected on the donation part.
You'll also notice that those with political power in the far right conservative areas of the US do things that could not be done in the rest of the civilized world.
Case in point, and I'm sure you will appreciate the free speech elements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKcJ-0bAHB4The left talks a good game about equality, but just as you did in your post, they assume that those they disagree with are fundamentally unequal in virtue. Those that disagree with them are so morally corrupt and lacking in virtue that it is just to deny them freedom of speech. If we disagree with same sex unions, it must be because we are intolerant bigots and not for any other justifiable reason. The list goes on and on.
To take up the same sex marriage point.
Firstly, most people against same sex marriage are against. it for religious reasons, and when I say most I suspect that that is around 90%.
So straight away that is a first amendment issue. Oh, wait, that would be the so called protectors of the constitution who are pushing for those unconstitutional laws. oops.
A for the rest, surely, surely, as a libertarian, no as a LIBERTARIAN, you consider banning someone from doing something that you personally don't like an anathema? Surely it goes against everything you believe in? Surely, anyone who believes that the government should but out and let people do what they want should let people marry someone of the same gender if they want?
Bottom line is that no, conservatives tend to agree with the Constitution as it is and resist changes to it. We would conserve that document as much as we can. Denying its benefits to others? You can peddle that crap elsewhere. We value that document too highly to shit on it that way.
Bottom line is that the far right conservatives currently in power what to change things, including the constitution, to suit themselves, and are the complete opposite of what you are claiming.