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EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!

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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by PeterZ   » Tue May 09, 2017 5:14 pm

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Daryl,

You stated yourself that YOUR alt right share a surprising number of views which leads them to generalize about those they disagree with. Hmmmm, projecting a tad are we?

What amounts to the American right if one includes libertarians hold a surprisingly wide range of views. Our left tends towards homogeny. Just like your left, we share a common core set of views. Beyond that? Katie bar the door.

So, I don't think I am making a mistake by speaking to those liberal shared values with a generic liberal label.

Daryl wrote:I do enjoy a good discussion.
To avoid a wall of text I'll rely on memory so apologies if old timers disease causes mistakes.
PeterZ I believe that you are making the same mistake that the alt right bloggers do in this country. Our alt righters are a surprisingly uniform bunch with very similar values, this leads them to talk about "the left" or as you would say the "progressives" as if they were as uniform. Just not so. I personally support gay and women's rights, a welfare and health net, worker's rights, and the narrowing of wealth equality. Yet at the same time I am a legal gun owner, strong on law and order, and a big supporter of our armed forces.
One area that I have come to understand over time is that the US conservatives do have a strong belief in the fixed value of their constitution and the bible. To most people elsewhere (even conservatives) that is strange, as both were written by men and men are fallible.
You have been told previously but I'll repeat that US conservatives are somewhat unique in this and many other things. Virtually the who developed world regards the US Democrats as a somewhat to the right party yet you see them as left.
Your argument as to societies to the left of yours inevitably sliding into totalitarian socialism is easily proved false. If that were the case all of western Europe, New Zealand, Australia, Canada and so on would have gone that way over the past century. Hasn't happened, and we could argue that in some ways we are freer than you.
I enjoy our discussions, so don't take this as an attack, just a talk.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Daryl   » Tue May 09, 2017 6:25 pm

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Interesting Peter. I still stand by my comment, as our lot in the press and blogs all seem to have a uniform package. It includes- supporting christianity (rareish in public here), opposing same sex marriage, a fear of Muslims (2.2% of us), strong on personal and national security (I share that), subtle racism, an obsession with "Cultural Marxism" whatever that is, hating PC and hate speech laws, a belief that feminism has disadvantaged men, and a suspicion that "intellectual elites" have taken over.
Generally fearful and unhappy.
I personally believe our society is the best it has been and is getting better.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by PeterZ   » Tue May 09, 2017 8:06 pm

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Daryl wrote:Interesting Peter. I still stand by my comment, as our lot in the press and blogs all seem to have a uniform package. It includes- supporting christianity (rareish in public here), opposing same sex marriage, a fear of Muslims (2.2% of us), strong on personal and national security (I share that), subtle racism, an obsession with "Cultural Marxism" whatever that is, hating PC and hate speech laws, a belief that feminism has disadvantaged men, and a suspicion that "intellectual elites" have taken over.
Generally fearful and unhappy.
I personally believe our society is the best it has been and is getting better.


let's see here.....
I support Christianity but truly believe that God doesn't want to force compliance with His Word. He could if he wanted to, but that would only destroy our ability to willingly embrace Him. I support same sex unions defined by their own more specific contract. I don't fear Muslims, I just don't regard their ideology or culture very highly at all. I have good relations with several Muslims and have had throughout my life. Don't know what cultural Marxism means, but all you lefties are darn near commies anyway. ;-) Yup, I hate PC and hate speech laws as redundant and all too easily turned into an attack on our 1st Amendment. I have no issues with Emma Watson's version of feminism, some others tend to use the term as a bludgeon against anyone that disagrees or those they dislike. Intellectual elites tend towards myopia and engaging in mental masturbation more often than not. Real life tends to confuse them, bless their hearts. There are many smart and very well educated people who do not wall themselves off in their Ivory Towers and understand life quite well. I would call their intellect elite, but they are not elitists. Big distinction for me.

We conservatives tend towards happy and optimistic over here. We aren't burning anything in violent protest against.....well anything really. Heck, even when the TEA Party rallied 8 years ago, we rallied peacefully and cleaned up after ourselves. Yes, our society exists in the best time possible; the time that has me living and enjoying life. After his dear wife and children, what more can a man ask for?
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Tue May 09, 2017 8:40 pm

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And at risk of going too far back on topic....

Trump just fired Comey. Now it may be within the authority of the president to fire the director of the FBI, and I'm far from a fan of Comey, but firing in the middle of the FBI investigating Trump for possible collusion with the Russians and announcing you did so at the urging of the guy who lied about his own contacts with the Russians while acting as a campaign surrogate for you is, well, extremely Nixonian.

And trying to claim it was for mishandling the Clinton e-mail probe? That was last year, and it basically handed Trump the election. Bull. Shit. Trump suddenly felt the need to fire him over it now.



And at risk of stating the mind numbingly obvious, replace "Trump" with "Obama" in all of that and almost every conservative in the country would be calling for armed revolution.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Tue May 09, 2017 8:49 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Daryl wrote:Interesting Peter. I still stand by my comment, as our lot in the press and blogs all seem to have a uniform package. It includes- supporting christianity (rareish in public here), opposing same sex marriage, a fear of Muslims (2.2% of us), strong on personal and national security (I share that), subtle racism, an obsession with "Cultural Marxism" whatever that is, hating PC and hate speech laws, a belief that feminism has disadvantaged men, and a suspicion that "intellectual elites" have taken over.
Generally fearful and unhappy.
I personally believe our society is the best it has been and is getting better.


let's see here.....
I support Christianity but truly believe that God doesn't want to force compliance with His Word. He could if he wanted to, but that would only destroy our ability to willingly embrace Him. I support same sex unions defined by their own more specific contract. I don't fear Muslims, I just don't regard their ideology or culture very highly at all. I have good relations with several Muslims and have had throughout my life. Don't know what cultural Marxism means, but all you lefties are darn near commies anyway. ;-) Yup, I hate PC and hate speech laws as redundant and all too easily turned into an attack on our 1st Amendment. I have no issues with Emma Watson's version of feminism, some others tend to use the term as a bludgeon against anyone that disagrees or those they dislike. Intellectual elites tend towards myopia and engaging in mental masturbation more often than not. Real life tends to confuse them, bless their hearts. There are many smart and very well educated people who do not wall themselves off in their Ivory Towers and understand life quite well. I would call their intellect elite, but they are not elitists. Big distinction for me.

We conservatives tend towards happy and optimistic over here. We aren't burning anything in violent protest against.....well anything really. Heck, even when the TEA Party rallied 8 years ago, we rallied peacefully and cleaned up after ourselves. Yes, our society exists in the best time possible; the time that has me living and enjoying life. After his dear wife and children, what more can a man ask for?


Let's see. Going down the list

- I'm with Peter on the I support Christianity but truly believe that God doesn't want to force compliance with His Word. He could if he wanted to, but that would only destroy our ability to willingly embrace Him.

- I don't support gay unions, but I also don't support living together before marriage and equate the two sins similarly.

- I also don't fear Muslims. The majority are OK. I just don't think it matters much. The small minority that want to kill us and impose an Islamic state, are becoming dominant in the Muslim world, not because they are winning hearts and minds but because they are winning the fear contest i.e. the majority of Muslims are too afraid of them to oppose them.

- Cultural marxism?

- I'm with Peter in that I see PC culture and hate speech as being to easily abused. You can see it in the universities now. The radical left is exercising a violent veto over any though that is left of center. And if you are a conservative professor, kiss the thought of tenure goodbye.

- Feminism has been co-opted by the radical left. Most women don't want to be identified with it (only about 18% of USA women identify as feminist). There are genuine female issues that aren't being addressed because the radical left is pushing it's so-called feminist agenda. Further, they are so hypersensitive and professionally offended that they are making more difficult for women who are victims of genuine sexism to be believed. As far as feminism disadvantaging men that is situation dependent. It is a problem in the school system, which is designed more toward the average girl than the average boy, but is less of a problem in the workforce and at the higher echelons of the workforce males and male culture are still dominate. Women who succeed at that level tend as a general rule (not always but usually) to be more stereo-typically male in body language and word choice. The sociologists argue whether that is learned behavior (intentionally or unintentionally mimicking those above them in the hierarchy) or if they were just born that way.

- The "intellectual elites" are living in an echo chamber and don't even realize it.

- The left is the ones currently (and in recent history - say the last 20 years) acting more violent. They are the ones attacking people and starting riots. Peter is right, the Tea party never did that, they just protested peacefully.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by biochem   » Tue May 09, 2017 9:02 pm

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gcomeau wrote:And at risk of going too far back on topic....

Trump just fired Comey. Now it may be within the authority of the president to fire the director of the FBI, and I'm far from a fan of Comey, but firing in the middle of the FBI investigating Trump for possible collusion with the Russians and announcing you did so at the urging of the guy who lied about his own contacts with the Russians while acting as a campaign surrogate for you is, well, extremely Nixonian.

And trying to claim it was for mishandling the Clinton e-mail probe? That was last year, and it basically handed Trump the election. Bull. Shit. Trump suddenly felt the need to fire him over it now.



And at risk of stating the mind numbingly obvious, replace "Trump" with "Obama" in all of that and almost every conservative in the country would be calling for armed revolution.


I'm not sure that this was a great idea since it is highly predictable that liberals will react exactly the way you are reacting. The media, who are also liberals, will likely react in a similar manner.

The Russia probe is basically coming up with lots of nothing. There aren't direct links between the Trump campaign and Russia. Trump doesn't have significant business interests in Russia. Russia seems to have wanted him to win for their own reasons, but I think that was more that they expected Hilary to win and were trying to reduce her mandate and thus cause her trouble to keep her off balance so that her opposition to them would be less effective. I think that they believed the polls and the media and were surprised when Trump won.

The most interesting thing that is coming out of this is the whole Susan Rice debacle. For those outside the USA. She's the former Obama national security advisor. When conversations involving US citizens are picked up by intelligence agencies, they are masked and referred to by things such as American #1 and American #2. She ordered the unmasking of individuals for political reasons. Flynn was one. Subsequent to the unmasking, information regarding Flynn etc was leaked to the media (that leak is a felony, when they catch the individual who did it). It is illegal for the national security advisor to unmask individuals for any purpose other than national security. As expected, she is claiming that her purpose was national security not politics. No one actually believes her but unless she is a complete moron, there is no actual evidence otherwise. So since we prosecute people based on actual evidence not opinions, she'll get away with it. Unless of course, she is a complete moron and posts a confession on Facebook.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by gcomeau   » Tue May 09, 2017 9:17 pm

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biochem wrote:
gcomeau wrote:And at risk of going too far back on topic....

Trump just fired Comey. Now it may be within the authority of the president to fire the director of the FBI, and I'm far from a fan of Comey, but firing in the middle of the FBI investigating Trump for possible collusion with the Russians and announcing you did so at the urging of the guy who lied about his own contacts with the Russians while acting as a campaign surrogate for you is, well, extremely Nixonian.

And trying to claim it was for mishandling the Clinton e-mail probe? That was last year, and it basically handed Trump the election. Bull. Shit. Trump suddenly felt the need to fire him over it now.



And at risk of stating the mind numbingly obvious, replace "Trump" with "Obama" in all of that and almost every conservative in the country would be calling for armed revolution.


I'm not sure that this was a great idea since it is highly predictable that liberals will react exactly the way you are reacting. The media, who are also liberals, will likely react in a similar manner.


Yeah, keep trying to just wave it off as "liberals" having a problem with this. Because you know, Richard Burr is just a huge radical leftist...

https://www.burr.senate.gov/press/relea ... ctor-comey


Or Justin Amash.... totally fringe liberal Freedom Caucus member...


This. Just. Stinks. That is not a liberal thing, that is an anyone looking at it objectively thing.



The Russia probe is basically coming up with lots of nothing. There aren't direct links between the Trump campaign and Russia.


Citation?

Trump doesn't have significant business interests in Russia.


Demonstratably false.

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/2/17/146 ... fact-check


And of course it's coincidence that his entire campaign was *infested* with people with Russian ties....and that his NSA had to resign over them...


Seriously, open your eyes.

The most interesting thing that is coming out of this is the whole Susan Rice debacle. For those outside the USA. She's the former Obama national security advisor. When conversations involving US citizens are picked up by intelligence agencies, they are masked and referred to by things such as American #1 and American #2. She ordered the unmasking of individuals for political reasons.


A claim that has been completely debunked. She requested routine unmaskings that both Democrats and Republicans have agreed were totally normal as part of her job responsibilities.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congres ... ns-n747406

Flynn was one.


Of course he was one! If you can think of a more TEXTBOOK example of when unmasking in warranted I challenge you to come up with it.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Tue May 09, 2017 11:55 pm

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Cultural Marxism...is said by Wankers, using a term they heard once at Uni that they think sounds bad but they really have no idea.

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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by PeterZ   » Wed May 10, 2017 12:41 am

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gcomeau wrote:And at risk of going too far back on topic....

Snip

And at risk of stating the mind numbingly obvious, replace "Trump" with "Obama" in all of that and almost every conservative in the country would be calling for armed revolution.


No we didn't call for armed revolution and Obama was every bit as offensive to conservatives as Trump is to liberals.
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Re: EXTRY! EXTRY! IMPEACHMENT IMMINENT!
Post by Annachie   » Wed May 10, 2017 1:15 am

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Peter, hate to say it but yes Conservatives did. (Again far right wingers).
Hell, Trump did during the campaign.

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