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How could political procedures be improved?

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How could political procedures be improved?
Post by DDHv   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:27 am

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From: http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-a ... l-rev-301/

This proposes reducing gerrymandering by a compactness criterion. They photoed it, so you will need to expand to read it
:idea:

What other ideas for improving the political process by using better methods do you know about, and why do you like them
:?:
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Howard T. Map-addict   » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:24 pm

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NEW PLAN FOR REDISTRICTING.

Theme: let it be done by the voters,
instead of by a legislature whose districts are obsolete.

Problem: this is likely to be clumsy. How can it be
simplified enough that the inherent clumsiness doesn't ruin it?

Idea: give the voters exactly two Plans to choose from.

Method: let the Majority (or Plurality) Party in The Larger
House Of The State Legislature make one Plan to redistrict
itself, and one Plan to redistrict the Federal House seats.
Let the Largest Minority in that House make a Second Plan
for each: the State's Federal Congressional Districts,
and The Larger House Of The State Legislature.
Then let the Two Redistricting Plans for the LHotSL be
submitted to the state's voters at the next election,
and the Two Redistricting Plans for the state's Congressional
Districts be submitted to the voters at the same election.

Thus the Voters get to choose which Plans they want.
A majority of the Voters is likely to choose a Plan that gives
them the majority of the Seats.

As for the Smaller House of the State Legislature,
it is supposed to be chosen in a slightly different way than
the Larger House. Now let this Difference be increased,
by waiting an extra election cycle to redistrict it.
The newly redistricted House (the Larger one) should in Theory
be able to make Plans that are more fair than a House with
districts more than ten years old.
Therefore I plan for it to be the newly-redistricted Larger
House that now makes Two Plans, Majority and Minority,
for the Smaller House, to take effect after the next election,
two years after the Plans for U S Congress and the
Larger House of the Legislature.

This Mixed System might please Conservatives as well as Liberals.

I expect that most Legislatures won't be willing to change
to this system.
The New System might still be adopted,
by Initiative and Referendum,
in states which have I & R.
Really, it was to consider New Systems such as the above,
that Initiative and Referendum was invented for!

And thank you ever so much for asking!

HTM, PLH

DDHv wrote:From: http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-a ... l-rev-301/

This proposes reducing gerrymandering by a compactness criterion. They photoed it, so you will need to expand to read it
:idea:

What other ideas for improving the political process by using better methods do you know about, and why do you like them
:?:
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Eyal   » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:29 am

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Limit the legislature's ability to stonewall (most of these are informed by its behavior during the Obama administration as it's more recent, but Democrats have had their share causing these problems as well).

For ex:

1) You want to filibuster? No problem, someone has to be talking all the time.
2) You want to avoid going into recess? Actually have meetings, not a pro forma "session" just to prevent the President from making recess appointments.
3) Shut down the government, causing government workers to be on unpaid leave? You don't get paid either until the matter is resolved.
4) You're required to "advise and consent" on Presidental appointments? If you've failed to hold a confirmation hearing within a certain time period, your silence is viewed as assent.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Annachie   » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:26 am

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Hell yes on all 4.
Especially the filibuster. A real filibuster is an impressive feat, worthy of being respected by both sides.

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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Tenshinai   » Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:47 pm

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Eyal wrote:Limit the legislature's ability to stonewall (most of these are informed by its behavior during the Obama administration as it's more recent, but Democrats have had their share causing these problems as well).

For ex:

1) You want to filibuster? No problem, someone has to be talking all the time.
2) You want to avoid going into recess? Actually have meetings, not a pro forma "session" just to prevent the President from making recess appointments.
3) Shut down the government, causing government workers to be on unpaid leave? You don't get paid either until the matter is resolved.
4) You're required to "advise and consent" on Presidental appointments? If you've failed to hold a confirmation hearing within a certain time period, your silence is viewed as assent.


Oh yes, those would definitely help. Not a total fix, but certainly a start.

Actually, on #3 i would say, pay the "grunts" at least halfpay regardless, but don´t pay the bigwigs at all, because THEY have the money to survive anyway.


#####
Annachie wrote:Hell yes on all 4.
Especially the filibuster. A real filibuster is an impressive feat, worthy of being respected by both sides.

Indeed!



#####
What other ideas for improving the political process by using better methods do you know about, and why do you like them


Everyone eligible to vote AUTOMATICALLY get their voting cards(/whatever is required ) at least several weeks before the election.
This would prevent a LOT of voterigging by lockout in USA.

If you´re a citizen, you get to vote, end of story. Again, kills off a bunch of voterigging.

Avoid electronic votingmachines if at all possible, because as is, you simply cannot even trust them to correctly tell you what 1+1 equals.

1 vote is 1 vote, end of story. THAT also allows you to simplify the troubles of changing district borders all the time, because suddenly, those do not matter even the slightest.

Quit the freaking stupid, outright disgusting capers to keep people from voting, USAs election organisation is on a pathetic level, i mean seriously, a lot of communities have to organise their own transportation to get to where they´re voting?
In all the places i have lived, i´ve never been beyond a 15 minute walk in distance to where i voted.

That it should be law for employers to HAVE to give people the time to vote just should not be needed, but in USA, it definitely is.


Of course, about 2/3 of the stuff i suggest above will never happen simply because the republicans would loose WAAAAYY too much on it.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:31 am

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Location: 35 NW center of nowhere.

Tenshinai wrote:
Eyal wrote:Limit the legislature's ability to stonewall (most of these are informed by its behavior during the Obama administration as it's more recent, but Democrats have had their share causing these problems as well).

For ex:

1) You want to filibuster? No problem, someone has to be talking all the time.
2) You want to avoid going into recess? Actually have meetings, not a pro forma "session" just to prevent the President from making recess appointments.
3) Shut down the government, causing government workers to be on unpaid leave? You don't get paid either until the matter is resolved.
4) You're required to "advise and consent" on Presidental appointments? If you've failed to hold a confirmation hearing within a certain time period, your silence is viewed as assent.


Oh yes, those would definitely help. Not a total fix, but certainly a start.

Actually, on #3 i would say, pay the "grunts" at least halfpay regardless, but don´t pay the bigwigs at all, because THEY have the money to survive anyway.


#####
Annachie wrote:Hell yes on all 4.
Especially the filibuster. A real filibuster is an impressive feat, worthy of being respected by both sides.

Indeed!



#####
What other ideas for improving the political process by using better methods do you know about, and why do you like them


Everyone eligible to vote AUTOMATICALLY get their voting cards(/whatever is required ) at least several weeks before the election.
This would prevent a LOT of voterigging by lockout in USA.

If you´re a citizen, you get to vote, end of story. Again, kills off a bunch of voterigging.

Avoid electronic votingmachines if at all possible, because as is, you simply cannot even trust them to correctly tell you what 1+1 equals.

1 vote is 1 vote, end of story. THAT also allows you to simplify the troubles of changing district borders all the time, because suddenly, those do not matter even the slightest.

Quit the freaking stupid, outright disgusting capers to keep people from voting, USAs election organisation is on a pathetic level, i mean seriously, a lot of communities have to organise their own transportation to get to where they´re voting?
In all the places i have lived, i´ve never been beyond a 15 minute walk in distance to where i voted.

That it should be law for employers to HAVE to give people the time to vote just should not be needed, but in USA, it definitely is.


Of course, about 2/3 of the stuff i suggest above will never happen simply because the republicans would loose WAAAAYY too much on it.


Adopt the Oregon Plan. Allcitizens (yes we MUST show birth certificate or cert of naturalization to get the newest REALiD Drivers License.) ALL drivers automatically registered to vote. Ballots mailed to mailing address on file with DMV, marked do not forward. Ballots mailed in or dropped at lots of ballot drops until 8pm election night.

No dropping people off the rolls, no voting the dead, no voter suppression for manipulating the hours to vote or the number of balloting places. Of course they have found cheating... people inside the courthouse marking ballots.

Gerrymandering, OMG it goes back to Elbridge Gerry (1812 Esse County MASS). Ive seen some crazy stuff even following rules like contiguous and following roads and natural features (bayous, rivers, mountain Ranges) to advantage.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Eyal   » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:49 am

Eyal
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Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:09 pm
Location: Israel

WeirdlyWired wrote:Adopt the Oregon Plan. Allcitizens (yes we MUST show birth certificate or cert of naturalization to get the newest REALiD Drivers License.) ALL drivers automatically registered to vote. Ballots mailed to mailing address on file with DMV, marked do not forward. Ballots mailed in or dropped at lots of ballot drops until 8pm election night.

No dropping people off the rolls, no voting the dead, no voter suppression for manipulating the hours to vote or the number of balloting places. Of course they have found cheating... people inside the courthouse marking ballots.

Gerrymandering, OMG it goes back to Elbridge Gerry (1812 Esse County MASS). Ive seen some crazy stuff even following rules like contiguous and following roads and natural features (bayous, rivers, mountain Ranges) to advantage.


I should note that over here in Israel - and AFAIK this is the case in most of the first world - we don't have to register at all. There's a database where you get entered at birth and removed at death, and if you're of the appropriate age you can vote (although you need to show ID). The main possible difficulties I imagine doing this in the US:

1) You need to keep the government informed as to your current address (or mailing address, anyway) as that determines where you can vote*.
2) It's more complicated in the US because you have circumstances where someone can lose the right to vote.

*Note we don't have absentee or early voting, which is a drawback but not an inherent one.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:23 pm

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Posts: 487
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Eyal wrote:
*Note we don't have absentee or early voting, which is a drawback but not an inherent one.


8 million people living in New Jersey, rough comparison. I can see how voting there would be less complicated. I don't know much about Israel's politics, only what an old college friend who lived on a kibbutz told me. But there are multiple parties holding seats in the Knessett? and coalition governments formed when one paert does not hold a majority? Less practical advantage, it seems to me, for one party cheating at the polls to gain the majority.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by Eyal   » Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:17 am

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WeirdlyWired wrote:
Eyal wrote:
*Note we don't have absentee or early voting, which is a drawback but not an inherent one.


8 million people living in New Jersey, rough comparison. I can see how voting there would be less complicated. I don't know much about Israel's politics, only what an old college friend who lived on a kibbutz told me. But there are multiple parties holding seats in the Knessett? and coalition governments formed when one paert does not hold a majority? Less practical advantage, it seems to me, for one party cheating at the polls to gain the majority.


The country's small size makes it easier, of course, but given modern technology I don't see a reason why it can't scale up.

In our system you vote for a party rather than an individual candidate (except for two elections in the 90s); Knesset seats are allocated based on the proportion of the vote each party gets and (simplifying) the PM is the leader of the party which can build a coalition that can be approved by a Knesset majority (61+ votes). IMO this has some advantages - for example, it gives a more diverse representation of various viewpoints, and the personality of a party leader as opposed to policy is somewhat less of an electoral factor (although it's not insignificant by any means). OTOH, it has drawbacks; small parties which can go with either the left or the right become kingmakers and can gain power disproportionate to their size (in our case the most notorious parties for this are the ultra-orthodox parties), and like most parliamentary systems, the head of government also controls the legislature; so long as he has a firm grip on his coalition (which isn't a given) the opposition can't do much to block the coalition.
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Re: How could political procedures be improved?
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:30 am

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:Ots of ways to change the system yet the important question still remains: How to improve it. Will change improve it or merely swap one set of issues for another?

Unfortunately, the party controlling the machinery of the election ie the people inside the court House with all the blank ballots and the keys to the boxes will be able to manipulate the election to an extent.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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