Are high minimum wages ethical?

When one considers that an Army E1 Private has a base salary of $18,378, which amounts to roughly $8.84 per hour, Brown’s argument seemingly falls apart.

From:

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkou ... sletterad=

The article also points out that useful work is a stepping stone. Someone with experience, even if as an unpaid volunteer can use it on a resume as evidence of willingness to actually work

You can't use US army base salary as a base for minimum wage discussion.
There's too many added extra's which can generate an effective salary that is more than double the base salary.





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In the right circumstances they do seem to work. Our current minimum wage is $17.29 for permanent full time work. For casual work it is 25 to 50% higher to make up for no sick, long service, holiday, etc leave. Obviously most people earn more than this. A new army recruit earns $35,854 (rising to over $40k when enlisted) a year plus they get lots of allowances and perks.

Our unemployment rate is relatively low, our economy strong with a much smaller per capita debt than some I could mention.

For my entire longish life employer groups have predicted doom if the wage rises or doesn't fall, still hasn't happened.

We do have some circumstances where the cost to the employer is lower. Traineeships and apprenticeships are subsidised and the actual wages are lower for a time.
As to the ethics, many employers would pay slave rates if they could.

Daryl wrote:In the right circumstances they do seem to work. Our current minimum wage is $17.29 for permanent full time work. For casual work it is 25 to 50% higher to make up for no sick, long service, holiday, etc leave. Obviously most people earn more than this. A new army recruit earns $35,854 (rising to over $40k when enlisted) a year plus they get lots of allowances and perks.

Our unemployment rate is relatively low, our economy strong with a much smaller per capita debt than some I could mention.

For my entire longish life employer groups have predicted doom if the wage rises or doesn't fall, still hasn't happened.

We do have some circumstances where the cost to the employer is lower. Traineeships and apprenticeships are subsidised and the actual wages are lower for a time.
As to the ethics, many employers would pay slave rates if they could.

Two points.

First. $17.29 AUS is 13.33 so your minimum is less than they are pushing for here. http://www.x-rates.com/table/?from=AUD&amount=17.29

Second. How much does people working in the gray market or flat out illegal aliens affect it? Seems like 11% unreported population would distort it massively.

Funny how my lawn guy only really wants cash. I do wonder what the unemployment rate is for illegal aliens?

Of course employers want to maximize profit. That is why get many cars assembled in Mexico in the first place.

Which makes them right circumstances difficult to come by and different situations hardly comparable.

Enjoy,
T2M

No. Worse that that, ANY minimum wage dictated by ANY government in the private market place is extremely wrong ... and non ethical.

Government has no mandate on any level to even suggest what a boss shall pay his workers. None what so ever. It is called socialism.

Some new workers are golden. Determined. Driven. Upward mobile. Trainable. Teachable. Quickly learn the job skills. Reliable.

Dependable. Self starting. Ask smart questions. Perform greatly. THOSE workers are golden and keepers and deserve a higher wage.

Sometimes very high indeed. BUT ... most of the new to the work place people do not have a clue about performing the job at hand.

Bosses are not day care providers. The horror stories I could tell about hiring and keeping on horrible construction workers.

A government mandated minimum wage? Ha ha ha. Not realistic. New hires should be paid what they are worth to the boss.

Anything else is called socialism. A very bad idea in a capitalistic nation. No free lunch. TNNSTAAFL indeed.

Disagree,
Most developed countries have decent minimum wages, and have done so for a century or more.
Unlike some here, we don't regard socialism as an evil dirty word, and our government definitely has a mandate from the people to enforce it. About 8 years ago a long term conservative PM brought in laws that reduced basic entitlements by a relatively small amount. He lost both government and his personal seat in the next election.

Employers and employees both have rights, one of which for employees is not to be ripped off.

Occasionally cases of unscrupulous employers are caught exploiting illegal migrants. There is a move to increase jail terms for such illegal acts.

Our economy and others like the UK, France, Germany, and Scandinavian countries are going fine, so it works.

HB of CJ wrote:No. Worse that that, ANY minimum wage dictated by ANY government in the private market place is extremely wrong ... and non ethical.

Government has no mandate on any level to even suggest what a boss shall pay his workers. None what so ever. It is called socialism.

Some new workers are golden. Determined. Driven. Upward mobile. Trainable. Teachable. Quickly learn the job skills. Reliable.

Dependable. Self starting. Ask smart questions. Perform greatly. THOSE workers are golden and keepers and deserve a higher wage.

Sometimes very high indeed. BUT ... most of the new to the work place people do not have a clue about performing the job at hand.

Bosses are not day care providers. The horror stories I could tell about hiring and keeping on horrible construction workers.

A government mandated minimum wage? Ha ha ha. Not realistic. New hires should be paid what they are worth to the boss.

Anything else is called socialism. A very bad idea in a capitalistic nation. No free lunch. TNNSTAAFL indeed.

Socialism is a nasty mean stealing word. It steals hard earned money from those the EARN IT and gives it to the non deserving. Absolutely incredibly wrong. Equate socialism with grand theft. Equate it with robbery.

Socialist nations are not nations of law. They are nations of mob rule. Probably too many non deserving people has been given the right to vote and they vote to provide a chicken in every pot. Who pays for that chicken?

Equate ANY government demanded minimum wage with stealing. Some new hires are not worth one dime. Worthless. Yet they demand a minimum wage? They may demand a high minimum wage? Outrageous. Again, TANSTAAFL. Respectfully.

HB, you do realize that the USA is a socialist country don't you.
Rapidly headibg towards Oligarchy and all it's associated moneyed privledge/serf class that comes with it don't you?

I especially like the dichotomy in your thought about "hard earned money" combined with a morality that refuses to pay people what they earn, yet entitles those above a certain wealth level to earn way beyond their worth.

Then the silly arguement about good workers and bad workers.
There are only good workers. Bad workers get replaced.


But then you are part of a system that does take money from those who earn it and gives it to the non deserving. It's just that the non deserving are running things and tell their sheeple it isn't happening.


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Go educate yourself about the way workers (especially factory workers) were treated during the industrial revolution in the USA and about FDR's New Deal before you speak more on this.

The fact that so many people such as yourself ignore is that the free market has proven many times that it will not protect the average worker and will do everything it can to increase its profits regardless of any morality (there have been occasional companies that don't but the ones that employ the majority of workers do).

HB of CJ wrote:No. Worse that that, ANY minimum wage dictated by ANY government in the private market place is extremely wrong ... and non ethical.

Government has no mandate on any level to even suggest what a boss shall pay his workers. None what so ever. It is called socialism.

Some new workers are golden. Determined. Driven. Upward mobile. Trainable. Teachable. Quickly learn the job skills. Reliable.

Dependable. Self starting. Ask smart questions. Perform greatly. THOSE workers are golden and keepers and deserve a higher wage.

Sometimes very high indeed. BUT ... most of the new to the work place people do not have a clue about performing the job at hand.

Bosses are not day care providers. The horror stories I could tell about hiring and keeping on horrible construction workers.

A government mandated minimum wage? Ha ha ha. Not realistic. New hires should be paid what they are worth to the boss.

Anything else is called socialism. A very bad idea in a capitalistic nation. No free lunch. TNNSTAAFL indeed.

IMHO, in any case, there should be provision for those just starting to work, such as:

=Daryl

We do have some circumstances where the cost to the employer is lower. Traineeships and apprenticeships are subsidised and the actual wages are lower for a time.

Even in the USA, some find ways to get needed experience. A youngster in town wanted to be a carpenter, but our laws would not let him get experience until he was older. He sought out volunteer work, and now that he is older, is in much demand. This although he did poorly in school: troubles with writing and horrible with arithmetic. He is a strong "people" person, and learns from the people he knows, not standard education. This strongly reminds me of Ben Carson's mother - anyone who hasn't read Carson's books, especially the biography, should at least read that one.