conservative and progressive

Upfront, I'd like to make clear that I believe society needs people from both groups. Also people are complex and don't fit neatly into one or the other; I'm quite conservative when it comes to family security, but progressive on most other topics. Neither is good or bad in itself, just different.

From the sample on this forum I've come to the conclusion that conservatives tend to accept things on faith more, and to accept that "rules are rules".
For a progressive to "get" religion they demand facts and proof (which don't exist).
Some conservatives here "just know" that UFOs exist and the government knows and hides the knowledge, some believe that US citizens are uniquely free despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary, facts regarding universal health care are deemed not relevant, and the abortion debate has lots of easily checked false facts.
It is interesting that most conservatives denied that some climate change was manmade until recently, when their role models switched to the yes side.
We call it the "man in the pub" syndrome; all the scientists/experts can say one thing but a single friend says another & guess which is accepted.
Years ago my respected and loved mother in law was fixated on the "excess" level of assistance our government gave to our indigenous people because of discussions in her golf club. I led the team that wrote those guidelines in our country, but I was apparently mistaken, because she just knew.

Progressives could benefit from having more ability to just accept things on faith. Life would be more serene if we knew heaven was waiting, and we also didn't have to double check everything we heard from base information.

If you do comment, please be nice and respectful.

Daryl wrote:Progressives could benefit from having more ability to just accept things on faith. Life would be more serene if we knew heaven was waiting, and we also didn't have to double check everything we heard from base information.
.

More serene? Sure, maybe, ignorance is after all bliss... but I simply cannot wrap my mind around d the argument that people should base their beliefs of what is real or not on what reality they would prefer.

I mean, I think the world would be awesome if a jolly fat guy in a red suit with magic powers zipped around the planet once a year rewarding good little children with toys. Wouldn't you?

So.... we should believe that is actually happening and not let pesky needs to check that belief against evidence get in the way? And we would benefit from that?

I mean sure, you could tunnel vision in on the "Well you'd be happy! That's a benefit!" aspect of it but do you really want to make an argument that abandoning objective evidence based reality for whatever pleasant dusions we prefer to it would be a *net* benefit?

Daryl wrote:Progressives could benefit from having more ability to just accept things on faith. Life would be more serene if we knew heaven was waiting, and we also didn't have to double check everything we heard from base information.

Except your entire second paragraph is as good a condemnation of taking things on faith as I have ever seen.

I dislike labels. Generally speaking they discourage individual thought.

As you say on some things you are one on other things you are the other.

Facts and figures get measured by the individual as to what is important to the individual thus each person has their own equations and results.

My cost benefit on buying a new car for example. How many people think a car costs 12-48 tons of CO2. Doesn't really matter to me, never bought a new one. <shrug>

Or a Millennial I saw this poll.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... inorities/

Scary thing about it is the entire not understanding what Our 1st Amendment means.

Read the whole thing. Read the survey data in the provided link.

Climate change, yes it is changing, I think. Never denied it. Ask any of the US "native" tribes for some reason across the entire continent around 1300 the vast majority of tribes way of life changed. In a relatively very short time. Saw yet another example of this in Texas this year.

Does that mean we understand well enough to correctly assess the causes, I doubt it very much.

But when Katrina hit climate change was going to cause a vast number of ever increasing hurricanes to hit the US according to the news and climate change proponents. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Looking back blew my view of their credibility.

The "Atlantic Conveyor" was going to stop and cause the next ice age (I think). A few years later I read the IPCC's report and no it is not likely.

Not even going to go into Mann's stuff which has done more to hurt scientific credibility more than anything a Young Earth or intelligent design believer ever could.

Is the Democratic Party conservative? Well if we look at Baltimore the voters sure are. What something like 50 years since a Republican candidate was elected to much to much. I could easily find the same for the Republican party in other places.

There is a reason I dislike labels they poorly fit me and just about every other person that I have met.

A wall of text that is worth the paper it is not written on.

T2M

PS My carbon footprint is more than likely in the extreme low end of most people on the board. But I am conservative. Why buy a new motorcycle when the current one just needs an engine rebuild? Yep I dislike change yet I do own a smart phone and have no landline. Show me a good reason to change that fits my cost benefit analysis and I change. <shrug>

I guess really should have simplified it a lot.

What you believe may be faith, may not be. What you view as facts, may not be.

Something about beauty being in the eye of the beholder.

Yep, I really do suck at communicating,
T2M

My opinion,
based on experience and on theory,
is that people *do* base their beliefs,
on what reality they would prefer.

InOtherWords,
We all tend to believe what we wish to believe.
Yes, that includes me.

HTM, PHL

gcomeau wrote:
More serene?
Sure, maybe, ignorance is after all bliss...
but I simply cannot wrap my mind around
the argument that people should base their
beliefs of what is real or not,
on what reality they would prefer.
{snip - htm}

Howard T. Map-addict wrote:My opinion,
based on experience and on theory,
is that people *do* base their beliefs,
on what reality they would prefer.

InOtherWords,
We all tend to believe what we wish to believe.
Yes, that includes me.

There's an inclination.

One can be aware of it and keep it in check by insisting on verification through evidence, which is essentially the entire point of the scientific method btw... or one can simply surrender to one's preferred state of ignorance.

As soon as you pigeonhole people (including yourself) into one category or the other, you limit their options. Party-line voting is the curse of American politics.

Take myself, for example. I support equal rights for people of different sexual orientations and gender identities, but I also support the right to bear arms, yet I believe that mandatory training, more thorough background checks and serial number registration and transfer records are needed. I support a free-market economy but think that US corporations who export jobs to avoid higher US wages, unions and safety/environmental regulations should be tariffed more heavily on their imports. I believe in complete separation of church and state, but support religious freedom. On the other hand, I believe that sex education based on medical fact should be taught in all schools, based on a curriculum developed by doctors, not preachers. This, to me, is the way to lower abortion rates, but I still want that option available. I love and respect my country but I think the doctrine of "American Exceptionalism" is egotistical nonsense. I believe in limiting government power but recognize that it has a role in correcting society's injustices.

Am I conservative or progressive?

Partially in response to dscott8.

But more just something to consider.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/

Interesting test.

For what little it is worth,
T2M

You are a Liberal.
Like me.

Howard True Map-addict, Pointy-Headed Liberal

dscott8 wrote:As soon as you pigeonhole people (including yourself) into one category or the other, you limit their options. Party-line voting is the curse of American politics.

Take myself, for example. I support equal rights for people of different sexual orientations and gender identities, but I also support the right to bear arms, yet I believe that mandatory training, more thorough background checks and serial number registration and transfer records are needed. I support a free-market economy but think that US corporations who export jobs to avoid higher US wages, unions and safety/environmental regulations should be tariffed more heavily on their imports. I believe in complete separation of church and state, but support religious freedom. On the other hand, I believe that sex education based on medical fact should be taught in all schools, based on a curriculum developed by doctors, not preachers. This, to me, is the way to lower abortion rates, but I still want that option available. I love and respect my country but I think the doctrine of "American Exceptionalism" is egotistical nonsense. I believe in limiting government power but recognize that it has a role in correcting society's injustices.

Am I conservative or progressive?