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UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble

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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by munroburton   » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:43 am

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Michael Riddell wrote:
munroburton wrote:Increase GDP. Which will also increase revenue. The big bank bailouts in 2008 were bad enough but they've had hundreds of billions more in "qualitative easing" since - if that money had been invested in UK infrastructure to generate jobs, new industries and improved education programs, the UK would be in considerably better long-term position.


Definitely an SNP man, then. ;) That's almost straight out of their manifesto.

All I'm going to say is "easier said than done". In order to invest in infrastructure, you have get cash from somewhere, so, where would the SNP get it?

Borrow more, thus increasing Public Debt, or get the Private Sector involved?

Mike.


Where did the QE money come from? :mrgreen:

If it's ok for a Tory government to order the printing of billions of pounds for their banker mates, then it's ok for any other government with a shred of humanity to do the same and use it for the overall public interest.

Or a robin hood tax on the financial sector would be extremely satisfying.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by biochem   » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:31 am

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Or a robin hood tax on the financial sector would be extremely satisfying.


Be extremely careful about the law of unintended consequences. Robin hood taxes often sound good but in practice achieve the opposite of what they are intended to achieve. It depends on the details of how such a tax is constructed and how easy it is for the highly paid tax attorneys of the large firms to get around it. More than likely the community banks will get hit, while the big multinationals that cause all of the problems will slip out through a loophole. Politicians are fond of doing what sounds good but unwilling to disrupt their cozy relationships with financiers that get them all sorts of perks.

Not that the finance industry doesn't deserve it. I just don't trust politicians to actually write such a tax bill.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by munroburton   » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:49 pm

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biochem wrote:
Or a robin hood tax on the financial sector would be extremely satisfying.


Be extremely careful about the law of unintended consequences. Robin hood taxes often sound good but in practice achieve the opposite of what they are intended to achieve. It depends on the details of how such a tax is constructed and how easy it is for the highly paid tax attorneys of the large firms to get around it. More than likely the community banks will get hit, while the big multinationals that cause all of the problems will slip out through a loophole. Politicians are fond of doing what sounds good but unwilling to disrupt their cozy relationships with financiers that get them all sorts of perks.

Not that the finance industry doesn't deserve it. I just don't trust politicians to actually write such a tax bill.


I know. Lawyers have a habit of mucking everything up. Along with creative accountants.

That's why such a tax ought to go after the largest target first, then work downwards, stopping once it hits a determined threshold.

It is a bog, though. Facebook for example paid all its UK staff large bonuses, which went into the ledger as expenses - so they technically made no profit, exempting it from paying corporation tax. Many international companies run their cashflow through another EU country so their profits are made "somewhere" else.

That's another thing - if the current governing party really was serious about closing the deficit, they could easily halve it by giving HMRC ten times its current budget and telling it to go after the big fish. Or hire one of the big legal firms to take those cases on a commission rate, which dwindles the longer any cases lasts.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by munroburton   » Sun Oct 18, 2015 8:18 am

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Speaking of trouble with a capital T. Blair is in the news again today. Apparently, there's a White House memo from 2002, a year before the Iraq war, indicating Blair was committed and prepared to be the cause's international cheerleader.

The pressure on Chilcot to publish is becoming enormous. Whatever the inquiry's conclusions are, they will have a great effect upon the Labour party. If it's a whitewash, the Blairites will probably come out swinging for Corbyn, whereas a full condemnation of TB and his cabinet ministers at the time would effectively neutralise them.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by Michael Riddell   » Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:11 pm

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Either way, not good for Labour.

My heart bleeds.

Yeah, right! :twisted:

Mike.
---------------------
Gonnae no DAE that!

Why?

Just gonnae NO!
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Oct 25, 2015 5:59 am

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It would seem that Labour, having (finally!) realized that it is having trouble connecting with its (former) Scottish voters, has come up with a fascinating idea.
They are planning to split the Scottish branch of Labour off as a semi-independent party on a federalized basis. This new party will be politically semi-detached from Labour, able to set and pursue its own political agenda, but will gain the majority of its funding from the original Labour Party.

...what :|

I don't even know how to respond to that. Rather than try to come up with policies that are designed to prevent the UK from splitting, Labour seem to be splitting early in order to ensure that they have an autonomous allied party pre-positioned for if the SNP does manage to win an Independence Ballot.
And worse, it seems to be Jeremy Corbyn's idea.
Yes, Mr "I want to disband all the armed forces so that Argentina can grab the Falklands and its oil while the UK prints worthless banknotes to try and con its way out of debt" Corbyn himself.

I sometimes think that Corbyn is the greatest gift ever to the Tories and the SNP.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by Michael Riddell   » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:44 am

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This will be the reason why:

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/labours-own-research-shows-scots-party-faces-grim-future.9053

If they don't "Do Something(tm)" they'll be relegated to the dustbin of Scottish political history, just like the Scottish Unionist Party was.

Considering the complete arse SLAB's made of running Scotland, I'm actually quite happy at that thought! :twisted:

Mike.
---------------------
Gonnae no DAE that!

Why?

Just gonnae NO!
---------------------
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by munroburton   » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:21 am

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Michael Riddell wrote:This will be the reason why:

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/labours-own-research-shows-scots-party-faces-grim-future.9053

If they don't "Do Something(tm)" they'll be relegated to the dustbin of Scottish political history, just like the Scottish Unionist Party was.

Considering the complete arse SLAB's made of running Scotland, I'm actually quite happy at that thought! :twisted:

Mike.


Well, it's that and Corbyn has no clue about Scotland. He's been an Islington MP for thirty years and the only candidate for the shadow scotland office minister isn't a charming intellectual giant. When it comes to us, Corbyn's using Scottish Labour advisors to brief him - the same incompetent half-wits who have steadily pissed their Scottish majorities away over the past eight years.

I'd say it shows pragmatism, conceding that a London MP isn't likely to win Scotland over whilst he's trying to win England over. And don't forget the Labour party is already federalised in some respects - the SDLP in Northern Ireland and Labour Co-op.

Unfortunately, SLab isn't going to do any better on its own. But by tossing them out, Corbyn removes one problem from his considerably burdened plate. And lands Kezia Dugdale with full responsibility for the Holyrood election, lessening the threat of a Labour disaster there being the excuse Labour Together needs to start its coup.
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by Michael Riddell   » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:03 am

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munroburton wrote:Well, it's that and Corbyn has no clue about Scotland. He's been an Islington MP for thirty years and the only candidate for the shadow scotland office minister isn't a charming intellectual giant. When it comes to us, Corbyn's using Scottish Labour advisors to brief him - the same incompetent half-wits who have steadily pissed their Scottish majorities away over the past eight years.


So very true. I think we can both agree that Scottish Labour have embodied the worst sort of machine politics for a very long time. For our American compatriots, think Tammany Hall or Chicago Style politics. Just not nearly as smart! :lol:

Mike.
---------------------
Gonnae no DAE that!

Why?

Just gonnae NO!
---------------------
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Re: UK Politics: Labour Is In Trouble
Post by munroburton   » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:41 pm

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From what I've been able to glean, Labour peers declined to join a Liberal "fatal motion" which would have killed the tax credits cut and triggered a constitutional crisis the Tories are ill-equipped to handle.

Instead, they have forced a grandfathering delay of approximately three years. That would mean they'd go into effect in 2018-9, for people who are currently receiving tax credits.

It occurs to me that 2020 is an election year. And in the meantime, the peers get to roll in some good PR for doing it. What were you saying about machine politicians, Mike? :roll:
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