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Political one liners

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Re: Political one liners
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:56 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Daryl wrote:with Trump increasing the debt rapidly

He's got a long ways to go to catch up with 0bama. $13 trillion in 8 years.


There you go pulling numbers out of your ass again. Good thing numbers have no mass or volume so you can fit them all up there.

Total dept held by the public as of the end of January 2009, right after Obama assumed office, was ~6.317 Trillion

Total debt held by the public as of the end of January 2017 right after Trump assumed office was ~14.376 Trillion

Total debt added under Obama: ~8.059 Trillion. Which is a LITTLE off from 13 trillion.


And then there is the small detail that Obama stepped into office being handed a deficit of nearly 1.2 Trillion dollars a year and an economy in a state of utter implosion. Skyrocketing unemployment, collapsing financial and housing markets, cratering tax receipts, stock market in free fall... of course the debt went up under those conditions. There was no other possibility.


Trump on the other hand was handed an economy at near full employment, in the middle of one of the longest uninterrupted periods of expansion in US history, a record stock market, and a deficit that had been reduced by over 600 billion dollars a year WHILE doing all of that repair work.

And he immediately started undoing it and running the deficit right back higher again to give himself and his rich buddies a massive tax cut they sure as hell do not need. So we are WAY past the time when any GOP supporter can pretend they actually give a crap about the debt, deficit, or "fiscal responsibility". This is a cycle on endless repeat.... the GOP get power and explode the deficits, the Democrats get power and move towards balanced budgets but since they are starting from a point where the treasury is bleeding money the GOP wails and screams about how the debt is climbing, then the GOP gets power and explodes the deficits again while saying things like "deficits don't matter" right up until the second a Democrat is in office again.

Reagan/Bush Sr: Exploded deficit.

Clinton: Reduced deficit.

Bush Jr: Exploded deficit.

Obama: Reduced deficit.

Trump: Exploded deficit.



So spare us any faux concern over the debt while supporting the people who are far and away most responsible for running it up.
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Imaginos1892   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:07 pm

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Daryl wrote:I paid that in the last two years I worked (back 12 years ago).

Oh, and, by the way,

YOU ARE LYING.

You did not pay Social Security over $150,000 in two years. Even if you did make $1.16 million a year, the maximum Social Security takes from anybody is under $9,000 a year.

gcomeau wrote:Total debt held by the public as of the end of January 2017 right after Trump assumed office was ~14.376 Trillion

That's only part of the debt. The total US federal debt in January 2009 was about $8 trillion, and in January 2017 it was over $21 trillion. The hole is a lot deeper than you think.

And then there's the $35 trillion already promised to Social Security over the next 25 years…

And the piggy bank is empty.
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Annachie   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:00 pm

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Imaginos.

Daryl, like myself, is Australian.

Different rules and such.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Annachie   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:08 pm

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Imaginos.

Seriously.

You rant that the SS piggybank is empty in the same paragraph that you reference 3 Trillion dollars that are in it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Political one liners
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:37 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Total debt held by the public as of the end of January 2017 right after Trump assumed office was ~14.376 Trillion

That's only part of the debt. The total US federal debt in January 2009 was about $8 trillion, and in January 2017 it was over $21 trillion. The hole is a lot deeper than you think.


And where, exactly, are you getting those numbers from?
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Annachie   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
Imaginos1892 wrote:
That's only part of the debt. The total US federal debt in January 2009 was about $8 trillion, and in January 2017 it was over $21 trillion. The hole is a lot deeper than you think.


And where, exactly, are you getting those numbers from?

He's including tbe non public debt.
Debt that is held by the government, such as the 3 odd Trillion of debt held by the Social Security Trust Fund.
But also things like the 1.8 Trillion held by the Civil Service and the Defence Force retirement funds.

For some reason, people tend to only talk about the public debt.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Political one liners
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:34 pm

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Annachie wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
And where, exactly, are you getting those numbers from?

He's including tbe non public debt.
Debt that is held by the government, such as the 3 odd Trillion of debt held by the Social Security Trust Fund.
But also things like the 1.8 Trillion held by the Civil Service and the Defence Force retirement funds.


Except no, he isn't... because those aren't what gross numbers for publicly held plus government held debt are either. When Obama took office gross debt was well over 10 Trillion dollars.

For some reason, people tend to only talk about the public debt.


It's the whole argument over whether money owed to itself should be counted in the same category as money owed to people charging interest on it who may also call it due at any time outside the government's control...
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Daryl   » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:25 am

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Not totally happy about being called a liar, in bold capitals.

Our system doesn't have a separate segregated Social Security tax account. I was paying income tax at our highest level of 47% plus 2% levy thus 49% on everything over $70k a year (from memory). So, as a quite senior public servant I was earning well into the six figures. It actually was roughly $60k tax a year for two years, plus a similar amount when my long accumulated severance pay was calculated out.
At the same time I was paying about $12k a year into a separate superannuation fund that was topped up 3 times by my employer under my work agreement. So it would be fair to say that I paid $280k over two years. Then I ended up not getting Social Security (as I knew I wouldn't) as it is means tested, and I had several times the maximum assets. Twelve years later I'm better off yet again. No complaints.

Imaginos1892 wrote:
Daryl wrote:I paid that in the last two years I worked (back 12 years ago).

Oh, and, by the way,

YOU ARE LYING.

You did not pay Social Security over $150,000 in two years. Even if you did make $1.16 million a year, the maximum Social Security takes from anybody is under $9,000 a year.

gcomeau wrote:Total debt held by the public as of the end of January 2017 right after Trump assumed office was ~14.376 Trillion

That's only part of the debt. The total US federal debt in January 2009 was about $8 trillion, and in January 2017 it was over $21 trillion. The hole is a lot deeper than you think.

And then there's the $35 trillion already promised to Social Security over the next 25 years…

And the piggy bank is empty.
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Daryl   » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:29 am

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Thanks Anna.
Once again the "World is American" syndrome strikes.

Annachie wrote:Imaginos.

Daryl, like myself, is Australian.

Different rules and such.
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Re: Political one liners
Post by Imaginos1892   » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:17 am

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Annachie wrote:You rant that the SS piggybank is empty in the same paragraph that you reference 3 Trillion dollars that are in it.

Uh, that's the 2.9 trillion dollars that are NOT in it. All that money was squandered long ago, spent on things that had nothing to do with Social Security. Nothing remains but a giant debt that we, the taxpayers, are expected to make good.
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