Political one liners

The problem is that this assumes that the only reason most welfare recepients (aside from the medically unfit and such) don't work because they're lazy. In practise, so long a unemployment is over 0%, you'll have people who can't find work. This is excacerbated in a modern economy where many jobs require an advanced education. It doesn' matter how unpleasant you make welfare if there aren't enough jobs to go around (unless you want to force people to turn to crime, anyway). It also ignores the issue of the working poor - those who have jobs but still require public assistance to make ends meet.

DDHvi wrote:True. So they should be able to choose learning to take care of themselves. Why bribe them to be otherwise?

The primary purpose of welfare should be to encourage as many as possible to get off of it, but that is not how the current system is designed at all.

Some cannot help themselves - but if the big government spenders really want these to be helped, why did they go after the "Little Sisters of the Poor" group?

Eyal wrote:The problem is that this assumes that the only reason most welfare recepients (aside from the medically unfit and such) don't work because they're lazy. In practise, so long a unemployment is over 0%, you'll have people who can't find work. This is excacerbated in a modern economy where many jobs require an advanced education. It doesn' matter how unpleasant you make welfare if there aren't enough jobs to go around (unless you want to force people to turn to crime, anyway). It also ignores the issue of the working poor - those who have jobs but still require public assistance to make ends meet.

The working poor situation is the part that's really annoying, especially when certain companies (such as Walmart) explicitly help their employees get on public assistance to keep their own profits high.

Eyal wrote:The problem is that this assumes that the only reason most welfare recepients (aside from the medically unfit and such) don't work because they're lazy. In practise, so long a unemployment is over 0%, you'll have people who can't find work. This is excacerbated in a modern economy where many jobs require an advanced education. It doesn' matter how unpleasant you make welfare if there aren't enough jobs to go around (unless you want to force people to turn to crime, anyway). It also ignores the issue of the working poor - those who have jobs but still require public assistance to make ends meet.

Indeed, a modern economy is in fact BASED on there being at least a few % of unemployment, otherwise it doesn´t work(as then you get skyrocketing wage inflation).

I believe the most commonly quoted "minimum must have" unemployment is 4%. Somewhat modified by economic climate and society.
However, some claim the needed level is higher or even much higher.

Also, it´s not just a matter of having enough education, but to have the right education for the jobs currently available.
A primary reason why easy access to education is an absolute must have in any modern society.

Tenshinai wrote:

Eyal wrote:The problem is that this assumes that the only reason most welfare recepients (aside from the medically unfit and such) don't work because they're lazy. In practise, so long a unemployment is over 0%, you'll have people who can't find work. This is excacerbated in a modern economy where many jobs require an advanced education. It doesn' matter how unpleasant you make welfare if there aren't enough jobs to go around (unless you want to force people to turn to crime, anyway). It also ignores the issue of the working poor - those who have jobs but still require public assistance to make ends meet.

Indeed, a modern economy is in fact BASED on there being at least a few % of unemployment, otherwise it doesn´t work(as then you get skyrocketing wage inflation).

I believe the most commonly quoted "minimum must have" unemployment is 4%. Somewhat modified by economic climate and society.
However, some claim the needed level is higher or even much higher.

Also, it´s not just a matter of having enough education, but to have the right education for the jobs currently available.
A primary reason why easy access to education is an absolute must have in any modern society.

4% unemployment does not mean that 4% of the people are unable to get a job; just that, at any given time, 4% are looking for work. It's not always the same 4%. Put another way, it means the average worker is unemployed for about a month for every two years spent working, or a total of about 2 years pounding the pavement in a lifetime.

I saw John Stossel ask the Dolists at a welfare office if there were any jobs available; of course they all said NO. He told them that there were 14 restaurants within 3 blocks with "HELP WANTED" signs in the windows. All said they would hire anybody who was reasonably honest and reliable. Not one of the Dolists moved a millimeter; every one he asked had some lame excuse why they couldn't take one of those jobs. Some said working as a waiter or dishwasher was "menial" or "demeaning". WTF KIND OF A WORLD HAVE WE GOT where honest work is considered "demeaning" but sitting on their fat dead asses collecting welfare is not??? Why are they not down at the public library learning something that can get them a non-menial job?

Every one of those lazy losers is counted as "unemployed".
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If you want to learn, the worst schools and teachers in the world can't stop you. If you don't want to learn, the best can't help you.

I used to live in a fruit picking area. During harvest you could guarentee that all the unemployed were either lazy or cheats. There was that much short term work available.
Of course a few months before that every job advertised in the area was either high level education/experience or for Aboriginals only. (I was looking for work at the time)
Sometimes you just can't tell.
As for waiter/waitress work in the USA. Pay them a decent wage. $2.00 something an hour is criminal.

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I'd agree with Annachie that $2 an hour plus what you can beg is ridiculous and demeaning. Our rate is about $20 an hour plus more on weekends an at nights. While I've done many challenging and difficult jobs, I'd not consider a $2 per hour waiting job as work.

Imaginos1892 wrote:He told them that there were 14 restaurants within 3 blocks with "HELP WANTED" signs in the windows.

And you actually believe that claim? That he went around the area and found each restaurant and interviewed them all? Interviews that apparently never aired in any way.

Merely the existence of 14 restaurants in a 25 block area is unlikely.


And seriously, you take anything shown on Fox as truth? You take ANYTHING from a guy who associates regularly with mr O'Really as real?

10 to 1, he went there to get the story he wanted, made sure to get everything he needed then cut and paste so that it would look exactly as desired.

Tenshinai wrote:

Imaginos1892 wrote:He told them that there were 14 restaurants within 3 blocks with "HELP WANTED" signs in the windows.

And you actually believe that claim? That he went around the area and found each restaurant and interviewed them all? Interviews that apparently never aired in any way.

Merely the existence of 14 restaurants in a 25 block area is unlikely.

You've never been to New York. There are neighborhoods with a dozen eateries per block. Right here in San Diego there is a place called the Gaslamp Quarter with over 30 food-serving establishments in 6 blocks. Many of them have HELP WANTED signs up, and the "homeless" just piss in their doorways.

And seriously, you take anything shown on Fox as truth? You take ANYTHING from a guy who associates regularly with mr O'Really as real?

10 to 1, he went there to get the story he wanted, made sure to get everything he needed then cut and paste so that it would look exactly as desired.

Who do you want to believe? CNN? Pravda? Al-jazeera? All of them have been caught doing exactly that, and worse. Yeah, Stossel is your worst nightmare - a reformed liberal. Knows all the tricks to look for.
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If a business tries something that doesn't work, they either stop doing it or they will go broke. If the government tries something that doesn't work, they just keep shoveling our money into it forever.

The governnment "invests" your tax money like a wino invests in a bottle of booze.

We all love the idea of justice, even if most people neither understand what it is, nor like its reality.

Most want "justice," on those they don't like, but which ignores their own sins.

I like the part of the Sermon on the Mount where Jesus' disciples are told to take the plank our of their own eye before they try to take the speck out of another's eye. Or Micah 6:8. This ain't easy, folks, we don't like mirrors that show our own ugliness.

=Imaginos1892)
honest work is considered "demeaning" but sitting on their fat dead asses collecting welfare is not??? Why are they not down at the public library learning something that can get them a non-menial job?

On my graduation, there was a problem finding work, as the economy was slumped. I went early to the day labor office, if nothing, later morning to the job service, if nothing, afternoon to the library to look up possible jobs and study (also read fiction when too bored.) The joke is that most of the work I've done (control systems and such) is not what the school trained for: Only one semester of electronics, the rest was learned for fun and to reduce boredom.

If anyone wants a fairly nutritious low cost diet: oatmeal, powdered milk, a tablespoon of peanut butter, and one fresh fruit a day. Boring but mostly sustaining.

The Left is moving way beyond 'tolerance' to 'coercion.

I would really like to see a system which would require any politician to state clearly what a bill was intended to accomplish, and then compare that with the actual results. Of course, this might put some politicians out of business.