MH17

Nameless, you are being seriously offensive.

Have you taken offense to my cessation of using the word "eurotrash" or are you pissed off because I dared to articulate why it is no longer in the best interest of the United States to defend Europe.

Yes, the shoot down of the airliner was tragic.

However; all evidence suggests that it was unintentional. There is even evidence that a Ukranian fighter was shadowing the airliner to use it as a "stalking horse" to cover an attack on Russian separatists.

It is also true that Maylaysasian Airlines and European aviation authorities had a moral obligation to take note of the fact that Eastern Ukraine had become a war zone. Given the fact that Obama incited the political turmoil in Ukraine in order to enable it's absorption into the EU and possibly NATO, the Europeans are not innocent.

Finally; the brinksmanship that the Europeans are engaging in to expand and consolidate their hegemony is precisely the type of insanity that had motivated George Washington to warn the US to eschew entangling alliances. If the Europeans want to engage in a pissing contest with Russia that might escalate to nuclear war, that is there prerogative. However; the US has a legitimate interest in refusing to participate in this insanity. In fact it is almost certain that the EU would cease the senseless provocations if it was understood that the US was not going to be there to protect them.

Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine bag another Ukrainian fighter.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/world/ ... e-20140808

Not being european, I really couldn't give a shit. For that matter being Australian casual racism is normal.
What offends me is the casual attitude to which you subscribe to mass murder. Not specifically to MH17, but that you would happily do it to other planes for reasons that resonate to an incredible degree with many groups that routinely use terror tactics. You know, those you quite often speak out against.
That's what is so offensive.

Annachie wrote:Not being european, I really couldn't give a shit. For that matter being Australian casual racism is normal.
What offends me is the casual attitude to which you subscribe to mass murder. Not specifically to MH17, but that you would happily do it to other planes for reasons that resonate to an incredible degree with many groups that routinely use terror tactics. You know, those you quite often speak out against.
That's what is so offensive.

You obviously misunderstood my point.

I am not supporting the intentional downing of civilian airliners by the Russian rebels. I am merely pointing out that the airliner was shot down ACCIDENTALLY (there are reports that a Ukrainian fighter was shadowing the airliner to either avoid detection or use it as a human shield). More importantly; Europeans and the US should not complain so loudly because this conflict was incited and provoked by US and European meddling in Ukraine's internal politics n an effort to expand the EU and possibly NATO.

IMHO, it is not in the US national interest to support the expansion of the EU into an entity with a bigger economy that the US because it is not legitimate to presume that the EU will always be allies rather than enemies. It also is not in the US strategic interest to further humiliate or diminish Russia because the presumption that Russia is destined to be our enemy rather than our ally is equally flawed. Given the geopolitical realities with China and Islam, an alliance with Russia is very obviously in the US best interest. Given the demographic trends in Europe as demonstrated by the reaction to Israel's retaliation against Gaza, it is probable that within a few decades the aeuropeans will become the natural adversary of the US.

More importantly, it is not in the US national interest to support a European war of aggression against Russia that could escalate to a nuclear confrontation.

For all of these reasons, I favor an isolationist policy with regards to Ukraine. One consequence of such an isolationist stance is that the US would not intervene even if the Russian separatists downed a dozen airliners full of Europeans.

If the Europeans don't want to have their airliners shot down, perhaps they should refrain from flying through a war zone or better yet, stop inciting wars to expand European hegemony?

More importantly, it is not in the US national interest to support a European war of aggression against Russia that could escalate to a nuclear confrontation.

Except for the little fact that it´s just as much a US war, as USA is one of the primary instigators even if it´s not the only one.

Tenshinai wrote:

More importantly, it is not in the US national interest to support a European war of aggression against Russia that could escalate to a nuclear confrontation.

Except for the little fact that it´s just as much a US war, as USA is one of the primary instigators even if it´s not the only one.

I absolutely agree with this point. Remember the video of US State Dept official Victoria Nuland handing out cookies to the Euromaiden demonstrators and the intercepted phone call where she presumes to dictate who should be in the interim government.

The Europeans have been excessively reckless and aggressive because they presumed that the US would support them. Now they discover that they can't trust Obama because his scrotum is as empty as his cranium.

I have such contempt for Obama's judgement that I oppose intervention in Iraq to save the Yzidi who IMHO are victims and worthy of US help.

I might be more receptive to US interventionism if McCain or far better Palin were POTUS.

Danish television reports that Ukrainian armed forces have attacked Russian military vehicles inside the Ukraine.
The Ukrainian president has told the British PM that “a large quantity” of military equipment has been destroyed by artillery fire.
There is increasing doubt as to the nature of the “humanitarian” convoy of 250 vehicles; with attached military vehicles” that entered the Ukraine earlier.

http://www.reuters.com/news/archive/topNews?view=page

Arol wrote:Danish television reports that Ukrainian armed forces have attacked Russian military vehicles inside the Ukraine.
The Ukrainian president has told the British PM that “a large quantity” of military equipment has been destroyed by artillery fire.


http://www.reuters.com/news/archive/topNews?view=page

I´ll believe it when there is actually ANY form of evidence beyond jingoistic idiots ranting.

The one thing there is that passes the border with hostile intent, is when families from Donetsk flee to Russia and then one or more of them go back to fight.

There is increasing doubt as to the nature of the “humanitarian” convoy of 250 vehicles; with attached military vehicles” that entered the Ukraine earlier.

Well that´s a "funny" claim, considering i saw the report from someone who was THERE at the border. No "attached military vehicles" in sight, and the Russians ASKED journalists to randomly search whatever trucks they wanted, at the same time as Ukrainian customs personnel went through them as well.

NOTHING suspicious found by anyone. The journalists checked at least 8 randomly picked trucks.

Tenshinai wrote:

...I´ll believe it when there is actually ANY form of evidence beyond jingoistic idiots ranting...

I know that a CNN rapport is not final proof of veracity, but when a story has been rapported on a number of leading news services, then there might be more then a "grain of truth" in the contents.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/world ... hpt=ieu_c1

It appears that the humanitarian convoy is just that, humanitarian.
But I do like the phrase:
"send tanks in by night, and humanitarian aid by day.!