Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

Political Cartoons You wish to share

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by The E   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:07 am

The E
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1798
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 1:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

PeterZ wrote:IDs are fine as long as they show the holder's ID. To do that the IDs have to be able to be validated as genuine. A reasonable solution is to have a few acceptable forms. Otherwise several IDs with slightly different information can be used at different precincts to allow one person to vote more often. Is this a big problem? No. But it does increase the possibility for fraud.

Heck, Germany requires 3 forms of ID. Voter registration card, proof of residency and a valid picture ID.


Wrong. In order to vote, only the state-issued picture ID is necessary. Do note that this is a document every german is required to own (and, technically, required to have on his or her person at all times), and which is renewed more or less automatically every five years. Given that we've had mandatory ID for ages, this is not considered a hardship for anyone. This is in opposition to your country, where the closest you have to a standardized, nationally recognized ID is a driver's license.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:23 am

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5651
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

Sorry, I got that requirement from an English language German site.

So, because we haven't had a reasonable precaution regarding ID, we cannot ever implement one? Rubbish. I have no issues with subsidizing the acquisition of those IDs and any other reasonable way to facilitate making them available. The requirement for an ID to vote is not a hardship, getting the ID may be.

The E wrote:
PeterZ wrote:IDs are fine as long as they show the holder's ID. To do that the IDs have to be able to be validated as genuine. A reasonable solution is to have a few acceptable forms. Otherwise several IDs with slightly different information can be used at different precincts to allow one person to vote more often. Is this a big problem? No. But it does increase the possibility for fraud.

Heck, Germany requires 3 forms of ID. Voter registration card, proof of residency and a valid picture ID.


Wrong. In order to vote, only the state-issued picture ID is necessary. Do note that this is a document every german is required to own (and, technically, required to have on his or her person at all times), and which is renewed more or less automatically every five years. Given that we've had mandatory ID for ages, this is not considered a hardship for anyone. This is in opposition to your country, where the closest you have to a standardized, nationally recognized ID is a driver's license.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by pokermind   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:07 pm

pokermind
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4002
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am
Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA

India one of the most populus countries in the world requires voter ID, even Mexico our southern neighbor requires voter ID. It is RACIST in my humble opinion to say minorities are incapable of obtaining them. Only those wishing to continue voter fraud oppose this.

Image
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by pokermind   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:10 pm

pokermind
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4002
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 8:58 am
Location: Jerome, Idaho, USA

An anti Hillary MEME from Facebook:

Image

LOL Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:34 pm

gcomeau
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:24 pm

pokermind wrote:India one of the most populus countries in the world requires voter ID, even Mexico our southern neighbor requires voter ID.


They also automatically issue them to everyone registered to vote, so there is no bias in who does and does not meet that requirement to vote. If you are a registered voter you have been given the card.

That is not the case in the US.

It is RACIST in my humble opinion to say minorities are incapable of obtaining them.


Nobody said "incapable". But there are hurdles. You need to be able to get to an issuing office with the correct paperwork. Getting to the office when it is open for some people requires taking a day off work, for the well off an inconvenience for those barely skirting along the poverty line a serious imposition.

Getting the physical copies of the documentation required to obtain those IDs often costs money. Again, see above. And which groups tend to be over-represented among those in poverty for whom this hardship will be the greatest deterrent? You guessed it, those racial minorities that don't vote for the GOP.

These laws aren't about making it impossible for minorities to vote, just about making it HARDER. Making less of them show up. It's just a more subtle round-about version of the poll tax.


Only those wishing to continue voter fraud oppose this.


THE GOP VOTER ID PUSH DOESN'T HAVE A FUCKING THING TO DO WITH FRAUD PREVENTION.

Do you know how many known instances of voter fraud committed in the last several decades would have been prevented by a voter ID requirement? Go look it up. Study after study after study has called bullshit on that claim.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:19 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5651
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

gcomeau,

Whatever you might think of the GOP leadership, their supporters are different. WE DO care about fraud. Discounting that belief is unreasonable. Asserting that the support for a voter ID push is NOT based on a desire to prevent fraud is bigoted. To believe that you make the unreasonable assertion that folks like Pokermind and myself couldn't care less if minorities are disenfranchised.

I do and am confident that Pokermind does care about minority access to the ballot box. Just because we disagree does not mean either side is approaching the discussion with malign intent. Stop assuming that we do.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 1:41 pm

gcomeau
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:24 pm

PeterZ wrote:gcomeau,

Whatever you might think of the GOP leadership, their supporters are different. WE DO care about fraud.


And those of you whose concerns are centered there are being played. Because these laws do pretty much squat about fraud.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:46 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5651
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

No they don't. Those cited by the courts as going over the top are ended. Requiring an ID to vote is NOT excessive. Make the process standard and publically funded just like our European neighbors. I doubt people beyond those corrupt pols will care. More likely they will applaud. Tightening up the voter registration procedures and voter rolls will also reduce election fraud.

Yet, as I mentioned, voter fraud is far less of a concern that maintaining accurate voter rolls. Tighten that up, and the possibility of widespread election fraud diminishes significantly.

gcomeau wrote:
PeterZ wrote:gcomeau,

Whatever you might think of the GOP leadership, their supporters are different. WE DO care about fraud.


And those of you whose concerns are centered there are being played. Because these laws do pretty much squat about fraud.
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:41 pm

gcomeau
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1424
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:24 pm

PeterZ wrote:No they don't. Those cited by the courts as going over the top are ended. Requiring an ID to vote is NOT excessive. Make the process standard and publically funded just like our European neighbors. I doubt people beyond those corrupt pols will care.


Sure, issue every registered voter an ID. THEN require them. In that order.

But of course not a single GOP legislature instituting these laws is doing that. Quite deliberately.

More likely they will applaud. Tightening up the voter registration procedures and voter rolls will also reduce election fraud.


Sure, it will reduce it from "effectively non existent" to "effectively non-existent only a little more so".
Top
Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:00 pm

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5651
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

No disagreement with point 1. I doubt Democrats will want to push for that either. I find the Dem machine as corrupt as the Repub elite. I can't call the Republicans a machine, they simply are not that effective.

I lived in Chicago. The dead do vote there. That is not nonexistent. The same is true for heavy Republican strongholds like Oklahoma as well as other Dem locations like Baltimore.

Where one party owns the electorate, they own the election process. Cheating happens quite a bit.

gcomeau wrote:
PeterZ wrote:No they don't. Those cited by the courts as going over the top are ended. Requiring an ID to vote is NOT excessive. Make the process standard and publically funded just like our European neighbors. I doubt people beyond those corrupt pols will care.


Sure, issue every registered voter an ID. THEN require them. In that order.

But of course not a single GOP legislature instituting these laws is doing that. Quite deliberately.

More likely they will applaud. Tightening up the voter registration procedures and voter rolls will also reduce election fraud.


Sure, it will reduce it from "effectively non existent" to "effectively non-existent only a little more so".
Top

Return to Politics