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Political Cartoons You wish to share

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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:04 pm

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gcomeau wrote:I said the GOP, as a party, made a conscious and deliberate choice to recruit racists into the ranks of it's voting base, and then to continue pandering to them either overtly or with a wink and a nod, for decades. Yes it is home to plenty of non racists, but it hung out a great big "racists welcome" sign and everyone saw them do it.
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What a pile of crap! Coming from a party that continued to embrace Senator Byrd of KKK fame, that's rich.
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by The E   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:06 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Addressing the effects of racism, which necessarily involves a concept of race in the policies being used, is not the same thing as practicing racism.

It is the same thing if the effects disproportionately and adversely impact racial minorities.


Like the republican tendency to try their utmost to make participation in your democracy as hard as possible for non-whites?
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:13 pm

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The E wrote:
Like the republican tendency to try their utmost to make participation in your democracy as hard as possible for non-whites?


What another load of crap. Trying to keep other jurisdictions from becoming Chicago benefits everyone, especially minorities. Having a photo ID paid for by the State is hardly a hardship. Having political parties use false voter rolls to disenfranchise voters because that Party ensure as few election safe guards as possible is to be avoided.

Electing a bought and paid for crook like Hillary to oversee the US turning into Chicago is to be avoided at all costs. Even electing a boob, if that's the ONLY alternative.
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by The E   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:44 pm

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It's a good thing your judges aren't as blind as you are to the realities of living in the US. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... 8/its-duck
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:48 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Addressing the effects of racism, which necessarily involves a concept of race in the policies being used, is not the same thing as practicing racism.

It is the same thing if the effects disproportionately and adversely impact racial minorities.


An effect that mostly exists in the heads of conservative voters while they look away from policies expressly intended to do exactly that being constantly pushed by the GOP.

What another load of crap. Trying to keep other jurisdictions from becoming Chicago benefits everyone, especially minorities.


How many times *just this year* has some court had to strike down GOP attempts to redistrict or rewrite election laws based on racial discrimination grounds?

Please explain to me how mass closings of polling stations in majority black neighborhoods is in the best interests of minorities to "keep jurisdictions from becoming Chicago"?

Please explain how shutting down early voting is in the best interest of minorities?

Please explain how revoking same day registration is in the best interests of minorities?



Because to the rest of the planet, they look an awful lot like "trying to keep people from voting" laws. And when they tend to be passed in such a way as to disproportionately target minority communities that becomes "try to keep minorities from voting" laws.

As the courts have recognized, repeatedly, when the evidence was presented to them.


You can keep pressing your hands firmly over your ears, squeezing your eyes shut, and pretending the GOP isn't constantly pulling this kind of shit, but it's not going to stop everyone else from seeing it. Which results in things like this:

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/u ... geRace.png
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:06 pm

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The E wrote:It's a good thing your judges aren't as blind as you are to the realities of living in the US. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... 8/its-duck


Let's see how far this decision goes.

SCOTUS has no issues with IDs to vote. Are the requirements for the other IDs consistent with being able to prove one can vote? If those others IDs do not require providing information that can establish the right to vote, why allow them?

Same day registration- seriously? Register the same day and provide the authorities no time to vet your status as a voter should be curtailed. Easy decision to discontinue.

Out of Precinct voting- Only one's precinct has records of who is a registered voter in that district. Voting our of district means the lists used to authenticate may well be inaccurate.

Cutting an extra week of early voting- That does seem silly and should be tossed out.

All in all, the requirements for all but the last condition seems reasonable.
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:44 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
The E wrote:It's a good thing your judges aren't as blind as you are to the realities of living in the US. http://www.economist.com/blogs/democrac ... 8/its-duck


Let's see how far this decision goes.

SCOTUS has no issues with IDs to vote.


But they do have issues with laws which can be shown to have passed with the clear motivation of disproportionately disaffecting minority voters. And it was PAINFULLY obvious that's what they did. They ran out within days of the voting rights act being struck down, requested reports on racial voting patterns in the state, and immediately passed a law that gutted all the voting and ID mechanisms preferred by those racial minorities.

Are the requirements for the other IDs consistent with being able to prove one can vote?


If they're consistent with BEING IDs they are consistent with being able to prove one can vote. What are you talking about?

Same day registration- seriously? Register the same day and provide the authorities no time to vet your status as a voter should be curtailed. Easy decision to discontinue.


Why? To accomplish what goal that needs to be achieved? What instances of voter fraud are occurring that this will stop such that this hurdle needs to be placed between a voter and their casting a vote for who will represent them in their own government?

Out of Precinct voting- Only one's precinct has records of who is a registered voter in that district. Voting our of district means the lists used to authenticate may well be inaccurate.


But they're checked against their own precinct later. Vote is thrown out if it's found to be invalid.

So... why should this person who is away from their home precinct on election day be denied their right to vote? Again, what voter fraud that is actually occurring in the real world is this preventing such that this hurdle needs to be put in place?


Because generally the answer is *pretty much none whatsoever*.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... out-fraud/


And the GOP legislators passing these laws damn well know it. They're not trying to fix any problem that actually exists, they're creating a problem that benefits them and making up excuses for doing it.
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by DDHv   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:48 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
The E wrote:
Like the republican tendency to try their utmost to make participation in your democracy as hard as possible for non-whites?


What another load of crap. Trying to keep other jurisdictions from becoming Chicago benefits everyone, especially minorities. Having a photo ID paid for by the State is hardly a hardship. Having political parties use false voter rolls to disenfranchise voters because that Party ensure as few election safe guards as possible is to be avoided.

Electing a bought and paid for crook like Hillary to oversee the US turning into Chicago is to be avoided at all costs. Even electing a boob, if that's the ONLY alternative.


FWIR, in places where photo IDs are used, minority voting increased. Possibly they start thinking their vote may actually make a difference
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:53 pm

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DDHv wrote:
FWIR, in places where photo IDs are used, minority voting increased. Possibly they start thinking their vote may actually make a difference
:?:


Source for that claim? Because it doesn't exactly line up with the data I'm familiar with.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... publicans/
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Re: Political Cartoons You wish to share
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:23 am

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IDs are fine as long as they show the holder's ID. To do that the IDs have to be able to be validated as genuine. A reasonable solution is to have a few acceptable forms. Otherwise several IDs with slightly different information can be used at different precincts to allow one person to vote more often. Is this a big problem? No. But it does increase the possibility for fraud.

Heck, Germany requires 3 forms of ID. Voter registration card, proof of residency and a valid picture ID.

Same day registration and voter registration rolls that are never s rubbed are a big problem. Chicago prefers voter rolls that are never scrubbed. No name is ever removed, even names of voters who have died. Having a number of names that a precinct captain knows won't show up at the polls allows additional ballots to be submitted without having the total number of ballots exceed the number of registered voters.

Same day registration has similar effects. A corrupt precinct captain can have several lists prepared depending on how many votes are needed. They submit that list to increase the number of registered voters accompanied by a suitable number of ballots.

When ACORN was registering voters improperly, they were not trying to facilitate voter fraud. They were part of a plan for inflating the voter rolls so that more ballots could be added if needed. Did that happen? Don't know. I do know it was easier to do with more names on the voter rolls.

Early voting, absentee ballots and mail in ballots have issues but those issues are workable if the voter rolls are honest.

I know you see the impact of stricter policies as having a disparate impact on minorities. I would agree. The problem is that you and most on the left maintain an unreasonable demand for laxity. By making large scale election fraud more likely, the possibility of true disenfrachisement also increases.

If you truly believe that racism drives most of this political maneuvering, you allow yourself to be slightly bigoted. Are there still racists? Yes, there are in all political parties. But like Democrats trying to disenfranchise military voters' absentee ballots, bigotry was not the motive. That was pure political corruption. Same in these cases.
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