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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:05 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:




You might want to check those figures. From the statistics I've seen those cities are in the average group compared to the rest of the large cities. For some reason they use absolute numbers when talking about Chicago but percentages when it's other cities.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Wrong.

To find data on homicide numbers for particular demographic groups within a particular jurisdiction, you need to access the FBI'S Supplementary Homicide Reports. You can then use census data to estimate homicide rates within the demographic groups for each jurisdiction.

I know that this is complicated, perhaps too complicated for you.

You explicitly said:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Chicago that have a very large proportion of black people have the highest crime and homicide rates in the US


Why do for example St. Louis, Oakland, Baltimore and others have higher violent crime rates than Chicago then? And for non-violent crimes both Detroit and Chicago is in the middling compared to other US cities. Care to explain that discrepancy in your reasoning?


I am so glad that you mentioned Baltimore Maryland as a counter example. Just to help you understand what a shit hole Baltimore is and why, here is an interesting article.

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress. ... -violence/

Here is an article on Baltimore homicides that cites statistics on arrests and clearences. The large percentage of murders attributed to people who are convience dead is suspicions.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime ... story.html

And another excellent article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... story.html

Of course Baltimore can not match Chicago for the absolute number of homicides nor the persistence of extremely high homicide rates. As a result, Baltimore has not yet degenerated into a total shithole where criminals have a nearly zero chance of getting arrested and prosecuted for murder.

See here:

https://heyjackass.com/home/

Notice the homicide clearance rate. The 10.6 % of solved cases include justifiable homicides by police and the few citizens that are allowed to be armed. The few actual criminal homicides that are solved are no brainers that even Inspector Clouseu could solve.

The vast majority of homicides in the US occur in Democrat ruled shitholes such as Chicago and Baltimore. Americans who live in jurisdictions governed by Republicans generally have homicide rates similar to Germany's.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:19 pm

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I just can't wait to read the explanation s of this one.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... age-195506
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:08 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I just can't wait to read the explanation s of this one.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... age-195506


Because an extremely rare event is a damning condemnation of Canada's gun laws?
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Michael Everett   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:39 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I just can't wait to read the explanation s of this one.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... age-195506

You will note that it's the deadliest mass shooting in Canada's history?
How many American mass shootings have resulted in over 16 fatalities?
Do you remember the Child Custody Sniper? The man who randomly killed innocent pedestrians as part of his setup to kill his wife the same way so that he could take custody of their children? The man who had modified his car to be a sniper nest?
Or the Las Vegas Shooter, who set up in a hotel room in a skyscraper and opened fire on a music festival with multiple guns? That particular incident ended with 58 deaths and 413 injured.

Heck, the Las Vega Loony alone was responsible for more deaths than the top four Canadian Mass Shootings combined.
I'm still waiting for an explanation, Tfly...
Explain the Las Vegas incident...
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by doug941   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:21 am

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Michael Everett wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:I just can't wait to read the explanation s of this one.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... age-195506

You will note that it's the deadliest mass shooting in Canada's history?
How many American mass shootings have resulted in over 16 fatalities?
Do you remember the Child Custody Sniper? The man who randomly killed innocent pedestrians as part of his setup to kill his wife the same way so that he could take custody of their children? The man who had modified his car to be a sniper nest?
Or the Las Vegas Shooter, who set up in a hotel room in a skyscraper and opened fire on a music festival with multiple guns? That particular incident ended with 58 deaths and 413 injured.

Heck, the Las Vega Loony alone was responsible for more deaths than the top four Canadian Mass Shootings combined.
I'm still waiting for an explanation, Tfly...
Explain the Las Vegas incident...


I don't try to excuse or justify what the Vegas POS did but please don't let the propaganda go to your head. Many of the dead and wounded were NOT from bullets, but were actually from stampede injuries. Meaning they were indirectly as best from his actions.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:54 am

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I don't try to excuse or justify what the Vegas POS did but please don't let the propaganda go to your head. Many of the dead and wounded were NOT from bullets, but were actually from stampede injuries. Meaning they were indirectly as best from his actions.[/quote]


The information that I am aware of is that all of the fatalities were gunshot wounds and about half of the non fatal injuries were gunshot wounds. I have not been able to find credible information on the which caliber of firearm actually inflicted the wounds. The politicians and pundits were to fixated on the bumpstocks to pay attention.

Paddock had .308 caliber rifles as well as the 5.56mm ARs. Google maps reveals that the range was about 500 meters. At that range, 5.56mm projectiles would be barely supersonic or even subsonic. (Depending on exact loading). I find it less than credible that randomly located, probably singular, GSWs from a 5.56mm could result in a near 10% lethality rate. It is far more credible that the fatalities were from the .308 caliber rifles that didn't have bumpstocks.

The US has had a total of 10 mass shootings that resulted in 16 or more fatalities. Given the fact that the population of the US is almost 10x the population of Canada, there isn't much difference in the rate of mass murders. Of course the weapons used in the deadliest mass murder committed by a single perpetrator in the US were a Butane lighter and a pop bottle filled with gasoline. This carnage was equaled in France by a terrorist armed with a truck.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by doug941   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:38 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I don't try to excuse or justify what the Vegas POS did but please don't let the propaganda go to your head. Many of the dead and wounded were NOT from bullets, but were actually from stampede injuries. Meaning they were indirectly as best from his actions.



The information that I am aware of is that all of the fatalities were gunshot wounds and about half of the non fatal injuries were gunshot wounds. I have not been able to find credible information on the which caliber of firearm actually inflicted the wounds. The politicians and pundits were to fixated on the bumpstocks to pay attention.

Paddock had .308 caliber rifles as well as the 5.56mm ARs. Google maps reveals that the range was about 500 meters. At that range, 5.56mm projectiles would be barely supersonic or even subsonic. (Depending on exact loading). I find it less than credible that randomly located, probably singular, GSWs from a 5.56mm could result in a near 10% lethality rate. It is far more credible that the fatalities were from the .308 caliber rifles that didn't have bumpstocks.

The US has had a total of 10 mass shootings that resulted in 16 or more fatalities. Given the fact that the population of the US is almost 10x the population of Canada, there isn't much difference in the rate of mass murders. Of course the weapons used in the deadliest mass murder committed by a single perpetrator in the US were a Butane lighter and a pop bottle filled with gasoline. This carnage was equaled in France by a terrorist armed with a truck.[/quote]

Point, I should have stated it as "dead and/or wounded." My other point is still valid though. 20,000 people trying to clear the area in terror WILL trample others, will push others out of their etc.
The reporting of this incident was extremely sloppy. Different sites will say 58 or 59 dead and anywhere from 500 to over 800 wounded. Then there is the location. NOTHING of this happened in Las Vegas. The shooter and his target area were both in Paradise Nevada. Saying "Las Vegas" is the same as reporting an incident as NYC but actually happening in Newark, NJ. As happening in Los Angeles but actually happening in Long Beach. As happening in Dortmund Germany but actually happening in Hamm. The reporters simply got lazy.

Oh, and 5.56mm at 500 meters? NATO mil spec at 500 meters will be doing at or over 400mps ie over 800mph.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:23 pm

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Do we know it was a 5.56mm AR. From memory it can come in .308, and if he had .308 rifles, well single round size is simpler.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:07 pm

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Annachie wrote:Do we know it was a 5.56mm AR. From memory it can come in .308, and if he had .308 rifles, well single round size is simpler.



Standard chambering for AR-15 type rifles is 5.56mm x 45mm. This is a .22 caliber projectile. You might recall that Governor Palin was criticized for hunting Caribou with a 225 Winchester:

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/sarah ... d-she/amp/

The 225 Winchester is nerly ballistically identical to a 5.56 x 45mm.
IMHO, none of the rifle cartridges in the .22 caliber famiy can humanely take deer much less Caribou reliably, but I respect the hunters who disagree with me. Palin ended up killing the animal with someone else's 7mm Winchester Magnum which is severe overkill.

There are many alternative chamberings for AR-15 style rifles. Among them are the 300 Blackout. It is a .30 caliber projectile just like the .308 caliber, but the internal, external and terminal ballistics are vastly inferior. It is comparable to the .30 caliber, M-1 carbine from WW-2. It shoots a lighter bullet at lower velocity. I would not hunt deer much less Caribou with it.

There is a rifle similar to the AR-15 chambered in .308 caliber. The AR-10 has a similar design and looks about the same except that it is larger and heavier. Depending on loading, a .308 caliber bullet will have about 100m/s more velocity at 500 meters with more than double the impact energy and wound volume.

A big misconception about "assault rifles" is that the higher velocity projectile generate hydrodynamic shock that results in horrific wounds. Hydrodynamic shock occurs only when the projectile is supersonic for the medium it is transiting through. The speed of sound for most human tissues is about 1,500 mps (it varies which is how ultrasound imaging works) and 4,000 mps for dense bone. The muzzle velocity of an AR-15 is around 1,000 mps. There is a phenomenon of inelastic stretching of certain tissue types such as spleen, brain and bone, but this occurs with almost any center fire rifle.

The bottom line is that at 500 meters, a bullet from an AR-15 has about the same kinetic energy but only half the wounding capacity as a single pellet of 00 Buckshot at 100 yards. A standard 12 gauge 2&3/4" shotgun can fire 9 pellets of 00 buckshot per round. A 12 gauge 3&1/2" shotgun can fire 18 pellets of 00 Buckshot per round.

Now do you people understand why I am justifiably enraged about my tenant getting a free pass for shooting at my son?


Although the sheep are bleating about banning "Assault Rifles" they still have not released any information on what types of firearms were used in the killings. My suspicion is that the shooter started out with some type of Politically Correct Elmer Fudd gun then took the pistol from the dead Mounty. I believe that this would be the gun:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26 ... Model_5906

The Canadians might be idiots, but their cops have good taste in firearms.

The number of dead has risen to 23. They are finding more victims in burned buildings. I suspect that the cause of death in many cases will turn out to be fire.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:03 am

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From what I have read the Vegas shooter tried to pierce the AVGAS tanks in a nearby refinery which would have made things many times worse. He seemed to have plenty of money, so thank whatever goddess you have that he didn't get a Barrett 50 Cal and some tracer ammunition.

In reply to fly, if I wanted to kill people and were sourcing guns - under 40 metres I would want 12 gauge shotguns, from there to 150 metres a 223 assault rifle (John Ringo's Barbie gun), from 150m to 500 metres a 30 cal (preferably a 30-06, or 8mm Mauser), then a 50 cal Barrett or 458 Weatherby.
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