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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:47 am

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Joat42 wrote:You know, almost everyone acts cooperative around the police.

My uncle was a cop and no, they don't. Some started out hostile, or defensive, yelling about how 'yer violatin' mah rights!' before he even said a word. Those encounters tend not to go well.

Joat42 wrote:You are currently spouting opinion and not fact.

So are you. At least my opinions are more in accordance with the facts than yours.

Joat42 wrote:Do you have any facts pertaining to these gang-controlled neighborhoods

Look them up for yourself. I've got better things to do. Start with The Projects in Chicago and New York.

Joat42 wrote:Ah.. Racial profiling

So, the fact that 68% of the criminals police encounter are black is 'racial profiling'. You really need to learn which is the cause, and which is the effect. Unless the criminals are 'profiling' themselves.

The E wrote:Conservatives and their fellow travellers will always insist that systemic issues aren't 'real'.

Ah, yes, the Type 2 Kafka-trap. "If you don't see The Issues that proves you're covering them up!" Couldn't possibly be because they aren't 'real' after all.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Joat42   » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:34 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:You know, almost everyone acts cooperative around the police.

My uncle was a cop and no, they don't. Some started out hostile, or defensive, yelling about how 'yer violatin' mah rights!' before he even said a word. Those encounters tend not to go well.

Okay, so according to the above anecdotal reference a majority of police interactions ends poorly because "civilians" are always at fault. Which directly contradicts what you said earlier. Which is it?

Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:You are currently spouting opinion and not fact.

So are you. At least my opinions are more in accordance with the facts than yours.

Okay then, please provide links to st2ories that the "left media" blew up with a comparison of how the rest of the media landscape reacted to the same event.

Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Do you have any facts pertaining to these gang-controlled neighborhoods

Look them up for yourself. I've got better things to do. Start with The Projects in Chicago and New York.

You asserted it, you provide the proof. That's how it's usually done.

Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Ah.. Racial profiling

So, the fact that 68% of the criminals police encounter are black is 'racial profiling'. You really need to learn which is the cause, and which is the effect. Unless the criminals are 'profiling' themselves.

Actually, it's you who need to learn about cause and effect in this instance. Answer this question: Are black people over-represented in crime-statistics because they are black or because of other factors?

Imaginos1892 wrote:
The E wrote:Conservatives and their fellow travellers will always insist that systemic issues aren't 'real'.

Ah, yes, the Type 2 Kafka-trap. "If you don't see The Issues that proves you're covering them up!" Couldn't possibly be because they aren't 'real' after all.

Are you asserting there are no systemic problems in the police force?

---
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Imaginos1892   » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:39 am

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Joat42 wrote:Okay, so according to the above anecdotal reference

Yep, there it is. Anecdote. The magic word that allows leftists to ignore facts they can’t deny, and arguments they can’t refute, when screaming “RACIST!!” didn’t work.

Joat42 wrote:a majority of police interactions ends poorly because "civilians" are always at fault.

It seems you have forgotten, but I already told you that out of the millions of daily interactions between U.S. police and the public, only a very few end poorly. I’ve never encountered an American cop who wanted an interaction to end poorly. How many have you encountered?

Joat42 wrote:You asserted it, you provide the proof.

I don’t have to prove shit. The E started this by claiming, without evidence, that ‘the above incident’ could only take place in countries other than the United States. You echoed that claim, also without evidence, adding that our police are racist assholes.

Joat42 wrote:Actually, it's you who need to learn about cause and effect in this instance.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or does it just come naturally? Read what I wrote: criminals. Those individuals that have committed crimes, and therefore deserve to be arrested, whatever color they are. Are you trying to claim that ‘racial profiling’ enables the police to control who commits crimes? When witnesses report that the criminal was black, are the police guilty of ‘racial profiling’ because they don’t waste their time rounding up all the whites?

Joat42 wrote:Answer this question: Are black people over-represented in crime-statistics because they are black or because of other factors?

'Other factors' like the fact that they commit most of the crimes? You might wonder why minorities commit so many crimes, but the fact that they do is indisputable. Arresting them after they have committed those crimes is not 'racial profiling' — it is the primary reason we have police.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:06 am

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:You asserted it, you provide the proof.

I don’t have to prove shit. The E started this by claiming, without evidence, that ‘the above incident’ could only take place in countries other than the United States. You echoed that claim, also without evidence, adding that our police are racist assholes.


Hehehehehe

You know, if you were to read the words I actually used instead of reacting to what you think I meant by them, a whole lot of angry shouting on your part could have been prevented.

Here's what I actually said:

The E wrote:The above incident being something that is kind of what you expect in a country that isn't the US (it happened in the UK).


Please point out the part where I said anything about this not happening in the US. See, the problem is that when there's a story involving Police, pregnant people, and guns in the US, it usually includes phrases like "... and then the officer opened fire".

You are so fixated on getting angry at me that your judgment gets severely clouded. I would recommend taking time off the internet, or at least time away from arguing on it; It does bad things for your ability to judge things objectively. I did for a couple months, it was great.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or does it just come naturally? Read what I wrote: criminals. Those individuals that have committed crimes, and therefore deserve to be arrested, whatever color they are. Are you trying to claim that ‘racial profiling’ enables the police to control who commits crimes? When witnesses report that the criminal was black, are the police guilty of ‘racial profiling’ because they don’t waste their time rounding up all the whites?


Racial profiling does pretty much exactly that. The heavier a given community is put under a police spotlight, the more crimes will be found to have been committed by members of that community; It's not so much a question of that group being more criminal than another, it's a case of law enforcement being much tighter. If you do not look like you "belong" to a given community, chances are you're going to be under much harder scrutiny by law enforcement; if you do trip up and commit some offence, it's going to be counted as a reason to keep people like you under close observation. After all, it was just proven that you need to be controlled, hasn't it?

Seriously, do read up on studies of law enforcement and the failure of "broken window" policing. It's an interesting topic.

'Other factors' like the fact that they commit most of the crimes? You might wonder why minorities commit so many crimes, but the fact that they do is indisputable. Arresting them after they have committed those crimes is not 'racial profiling' — it is the primary reason we have police.


And this is the conservative refusal to investigate systemic issues at work. You, personally, haven't had a threatening interaction with law enforcement, therefore anyone who has must have done something wrong.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Joat42   » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:30 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:Actually, it's you who need to learn about cause and effect in this instance.

Are you being deliberately obtuse, or does it just come naturally? Read what I wrote: criminals. Those individuals that have committed crimes, and therefore deserve to be arrested, whatever color they are. Are you trying to claim that ‘racial profiling’ enables the police to control who commits crimes? When witnesses report that the criminal was black, are the police guilty of ‘racial profiling’ because they don’t waste their time rounding up all the whites?

And you totally missed what I'm talking about.

Joat42 wrote:Answer this question: Are black people over-represented in crime-statistics because they are black or because of other factors?

'Other factors' like the fact that they commit most of the crimes? You might wonder why minorities commit so many crimes, but the fact that they do is indisputable. Arresting them after they have committed those crimes is not 'racial profiling' — it is the primary reason we have police.[/quote]
You didn't even stop and think about my question which proves you totally missed the point and have no clue of cause and effect in this instance because of your prejudice.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Imaginos1892   » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:15 am

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The E wrote:You know, if you were to read the words I actually used instead of reacting to what you think I meant

The implication is obvious. And consistent with everything else you post. We all get it. You hate America. You don’t need to keep repeating it.

The E wrote:Racial profiling does pretty much exactly that. The heavier a given community is put under a police spotlight, the more crimes will be found to have been committed by members of that community; It's not so much a question of that group being more criminal than another, it's a case of law enforcement being much tighter. If you do not look like you "belong" to a given community, chances are you're going to be under much harder scrutiny by law enforcement; if you do trip up and commit some offence, it's going to be counted as a reason to keep people like you under close observation. After all, it was just proven that you need to be controlled, hasn't it?

Funny thing, 99% of the people in this country NEVER ‘trip up’ and rob a liquor store, or rape and murder a woman walking down the ‘wrong’ street, or shoot into a crowd. I don’t know what nonsense passes for thought inside your head, that you can pretend ‘racial profiling’ causes them to commit those violent crimes. If I thought the cops were paying extra attention to me, I would not be any more likely to ‘trip up’ and go rob a bank. I don’t see why anybody would be.

The E wrote:And this is the conservative refusal to investigate systemic issues at work.

What sort of an idiot would claim some ‘conservative refusal to investigate systemic issues’ in cities that have been ruled by hard-left Democrats for decades? The few conservatives in those cities aren’t in a position to refuse anything.

Well, I suppose it is possible that you are simply ignorant. Here in the United States, we don’t have one big ‘The Police’. We have fifty state police departments, more than 2,000 county sheriff’s departments, and thousands of municipal police departments, each independently run by that state, county, city, or town’s government. The District Attorney’s office, which would be responsible for charging police officers with any crimes, is run by either the city or the county. It is simply not possible for there to be some sort of vast nationwide secret police conspiracy, conservative or otherwise.

Now you know. Stop posting such stupidity.

Joat42 wrote:You didn't even stop and think about my question which proves you totally missed the point and have no clue of cause and effect in this instance because of your prejudice.

The inevitable left-wing response. When someone disagrees with you, scream “RACIST!!” If it doesn’t work, scream louder.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Joat42   » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:24 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:It is simply not possible for there to be some sort of vast nationwide secret police conspiracy.

Did you just make that shit up? Nobody here have been talking about a conspiracy, what has been said is that the police in the US suffers from systemic issues.

Imaginos1892 wrote:
Joat42 wrote:You didn't even stop and think about my question which proves you totally missed the point and have no clue of cause and effect in this instance because of your prejudice.

The inevitable left-wing response. When someone disagrees with you, scream “RACIST!!” If it doesn’t work, scream louder.

Do you even engage your brain before typing an angry answer? I never called you a racist, I called you prejudiced which I stand by because of your inability to think beyond the "obvious answer" which you re-iterated several times now.

I asked the simple question are black people over-represented in crime-statics because they are black or because of other factors to which you gave a non-answer:
Imaginos1892 wrote:'Other factors' like the fact that they commit most of the crimes? You might wonder why minorities commit so many crimes, but the fact that they do is indisputable. Arresting them after they have committed those crimes is not 'racial profiling' — it is the primary reason we have police.

Do you think you can answer it now? It's very simple, there are two answers you can give: "because they are black" or "because of other factors".

And if you for some reason answer "because of other factors", perhaps you would be willing to explain those factors? (Hint: it has to do with "cause and effect").
Maybe you will answer "because they are black" instead, but then you have to explain why (Hint: it has to do with an inability to reason beyond ones prejudices).

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:55 pm

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Other factors -
Low socio economics. "If you ain't got nothin, you've got nothin to lose".
Give a dog a bad name.
Poor neighbour hoods give youth the wrong message.
Lack of positive role models.
Police stereo typing leads to more arrests.
Community antipathy to police leads to poor interaction.

A controversial one is that when police know that many in the community they are visiting are armed, it means they are more likely to react violently.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Joat42   » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am

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Daryl wrote:Other factors -
Low socio economics. "If you ain't got nothin, you've got nothin to lose".
Give a dog a bad name.
Poor neighbour hoods give youth the wrong message.
Lack of positive role models.
Police stereo typing leads to more arrests.
Community antipathy to police leads to poor interaction.

And all those factors are due to some pretty obvious causes which seems to elude Imaginos thinking.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:18 pm

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I have to thank Imaginos for stepping in to respond to the foreign bigots.

If you bigots would peruse the FBI homicide statistics, you would find that black people who comprise only 1/8 of the US population commit over 1/2 of all homicides and nearly 2/3 of all gun homicides. The same homicide statics reveal that the vast majority of black murder victims are murdered by black murders. The vast majority of white murder victims are murdered by white murderers.

Contrary to the image that you foreign bigots cling so tenaciously to, the vast majority of black people in America live on at least lower middle class income with a reasonably middle class lifestyle. The major cause of black poverty is the result of low marriage rates and high rates of out of wedlock births. I am aware of no systematic effort by the Ku Klux Klan to prevent black people from marrying or to impregnate unmarried black women either naturally or through artificial insemination using sperm collected from black men. While the majority of blacks who suffer from these disadvantages don't commit violent crimes, many of black people who do commit violent crimes suffer from these disadvantages.

Never Fear! America's Pro Choice activists claim that they are solving this problem by systematically exterminating disadvantaged black children before they are even born.

It would no doubt amaze you that a racist such as myself is training an African-American (half Japanese) realtor that I do business with how to shoot specifically to defend herself from her white neighbor who is a psychopath just like my marijuana bootlegging tenant. (OK, I nm admit that I am a bit prejudiced because she looks so much like a younger Pam Grier. My mail carrier is also a dead ringer for Joy Harmon. Unfortunately; she refuses to wash my car for me.)
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