Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Guns, Guns Guns

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by ywing14   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:09 am

ywing14
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 370
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:40 pm

Annachie wrote:
Posse Comitatus act wrote:Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; 


Basically, Congress can authorize it.


Yeah so right now can the us military conduct law enforcement activities? No it can’t. You’re arguing my point for me. Congress would have to pass a law to permit it.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by smr   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:37 am

smr
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm

@Daryl

All I did was setup a scenario. Let's flesh out that scenario a little more. Suppose, Trump is reelected and then decides to stay in office after his term has expired. He has the majority of military supporting him. How do we resist? Granted we could not stand up to the military in a pitched battle...asymmetrical warfare(very difficult but doable). What if most the Germans still owned firearms in the 1930's? Would WW2 happen? Kind of makes a person think. Modern example would be Turkey. A secular government overthrown by a President who is now a Dictator for life.

The world is not a nice safe place. Would you travel in Mexico in a rented car by yourself? I would not. How many people die due to the Cartels? In Mexico, my wife's family is heavily armed with automatic weapons. Yes, it's illegal but the government is so corrupt most people consider the government not functional in the outlying areas of Mexico. Her parents pay 10% of their income to the Knights Templars that keep the Drug Dealers out. At least with them their are rules. They pay and are protected. Their children like my wife are not kidnapped and sold as sex slaves or forced to join a gang (cartel or syndicate). (Under the Obama administration they were declared a terrorist organization!) The point is I do not want what has happened in Mexico to happen in America.

https://www.united-states-flag.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/n/c/ncti35p_-01_flag_come-and-take-it-flag.jpg

Daryl wrote:I loved that bit in Men in Black, where the alien hears the brag about prying from my cold dead hand, and says "The terms are acceptable".
Get a grip smr, who is trying to foment revolution in a foreign country, and why would they try?
We are just discussing a mind set that is exotic to virtually everyone except the about half of you Americans who have it.
For us the concept of having a right to own a fire arm for the specific reason that you may want to go to your capital and kill people to overturn a legally elected government, because you disagree with some of its laws is insane. Our terms are treason and armed revolt.
Just as an individual sample, I'm not anti gun, owning five at last count, but I'd never consider using them to enforce my views on my country. That would make me an enemy of the state.



smr wrote:Let's say the 2nd amendment has a new ruling/precedent. Who are you going to send to my house to kill me because I will not surrender my weapons. I will shoot them or they will kill me. As far as I am concerned that is the start of a 2nd American Revolution. The military will be dealing with it's own people because many of them will fight for the Constitution. As a soldier, their are some orders that will not be obeyed. We are the defenders of the Constitution. We swore an oath to defend the Constitution against all foreign or domestic enemies.

Why are you attempting to foment revolution within America? Why are you attempting to turn peace loving American citizens into ENEMIES OF THE STATE.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:14 am

Annachie
Admiral

Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:36 pm

ywing14 wrote:
Yeah so right now can the us military conduct law enforcement activities? No it can’t. You’re arguing my point for me. Congress would have to pass a law to permit it.


They did.
I quoted it.
You quoted it.
You first mentioned it.
If the President commands it and the congress approves, yes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:41 am

gcomeau
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1902
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:24 pm

smr wrote:Let's say the 2nd amendment has a new ruling/precedent. Who are you going to send to my house to kill me because I will not surrender my weapons. I will shoot them or they will kill me.


I always get amused by gun fans who simultaneously spend their time arguing:

1: "I'm a responsible rational adult who isn't a danger to anybody and I should be allowed to own all the guns I want!"

2. "If the law ever said I had to turn in my weapon I'd start killing cops who tried to enforce it!" (You know, because they're such a responsible law abiding rational adult who nobody has to worry about being armed)
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:18 pm

The E
Admiral

Posts: 2047
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

smr wrote:What if most the Germans still owned firearms in the 1930's? Would WW2 happen?


Yes, because there was never a point in time where "most germans" owned firearms.

Also, the nazis were pretty keen on recruiting the people owning weapons into the SA or the party before they started shutting down democracy.

Do you honestly think that the NRA becoming a propaganda arm of the current US fascist movement is something that just happened naturally?

Kind of makes a person think. Modern example would be Turkey. A secular government overthrown by a President who is now a Dictator for life.


The government wasn't overthrown, though. Erdogan was in power for some time before he started the purges, a position he attained using the same religious fundamentalist base that the modern conservative movement in the US is built around.

It's no wonder at all that your dear Trumpet in Chief likes the guy.

The point is I do not want what has happened in Mexico to happen in America.


And yet, you do support Trump. Curious, that.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by noblehunter   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:49 pm

noblehunter
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:49 pm

smr wrote:@Daryl

All I did was setup a scenario. Let's flesh out that scenario a little more. Suppose, Trump is reelected and then decides to stay in office after his term has expired. He has the majority of military supporting him. How do we resist?

Not with small arms. Shooting at the US Army or Marines is really good way to end up dead. There's a reason the insurgencies in Iraq and Afganistan rely heavily on IEDs (which are ridiculously illegal in the US) rather than trying to meet the US in even asymmetrical combat. Civilians getting into firefights with trained troops is a losing proposition.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by smr   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:29 pm

smr
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:18 pm

That's assuming the military is following those orders!

noblehunter wrote:
smr wrote:@Daryl

All I did was setup a scenario. Let's flesh out that scenario a little more. Suppose, Trump is reelected and then decides to stay in office after his term has expired. He has the majority of military supporting him. How do we resist?

Not with small arms. Shooting at the US Army or Marines is really good way to end up dead. There's a reason the insurgencies in Iraq and Afganistan rely heavily on IEDs (which are ridiculously illegal in the US) rather than trying to meet the US in even asymmetrical combat. Civilians getting into firefights with trained troops is a losing proposition.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:33 pm

gcomeau
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1902
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:24 pm

smr wrote:That's assuming the military is following those orders!


Yes... because those were the specific conditions of your own hypothetical. To assume he has the majority of the military in support.
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:04 am

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm

gcomeau wrote:
smr wrote:That's assuming the military is following those orders!


Yes... because those were the specific conditions of your own hypothetical. To assume he has the majority of the military in support.

\\\

Well, so much for their oath "To Defend The Constitution". Oh, that's right, they hate thw constitution as much you do, and the rest of the GIP who wants to call a constitutional convention to rewrite it, right?

(Sorry, Gcomeau, not aimed at you)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:50 am

Annachie
Admiral

Posts: 2582
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:36 pm

That's what really got me about the so called Oathkeepers. Their first two oaths were to defend the constitution and to violate it.

As an organization they've cleaned that up a lot in the last ten years or so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
Top

Return to Politics