Guns, Guns Guns

Really, Vegas was badly executed. Luckily.

Daryl wrote:From what I have read the Vegas shooter tried to pierce the AVGAS tanks in a nearby refinery which would have made things many times worse. He seemed to have plenty of money, so thank whatever goddess you have that he didn't get a Barrett 50 Cal and some tracer ammunition.

In reply to fly, if I wanted to kill people and were sourcing guns - under 40 metres I would want 12 gauge shotguns, from there to 150 metres a 223 assault rifle (John Ringo's Barbie gun), from 150m to 500 metres a 30 cal (preferably a 30-06, or 8mm Mauser), then a 50 cal Barrett or 458 Weatherby.

Not a refinery, they were the tank farm for McCarran International Airport. Problem being they are approx 1 mile from the two rooms Paddock used for his sniper nest. Even with .308 rounds, that's a stretch.

Daryl wrote:From what I have read the Vegas shooter tried to pierce the AVGAS tanks in a nearby refinery which would have made things many times worse. He seemed to have plenty of money, so thank whatever goddess you have that he didn't get a Barrett 50 Cal and some tracer ammunition.

In reply to fly, if I wanted to kill people and were sourcing guns - under 40 metres I would want 12 gauge shotguns, from there to 150 metres a 223 assault rifle (John Ringo's Barbie gun), from 150m to 500 metres a 30 cal (preferably a 30-06, or 8mm Mauser), then a 50 cal Barrett or 458 Weatherby.

It is doubtful that even a .50 BMG could penetrate the fuel tanks at that range. Penetration in steel is proportional to velocity squared. The velocity is roughly an exponential decay function with range.

A shotgun really doesn't become a devastating weapon for random mass murder until the pattern becomes wide enough to injure multiple victims with every round fired. Given the one inch per yard rule of thumb, I would target crowds at 50 to 100 yards. However; if I was going to commit mass murder, I would probably choose a 5.56 mm rifle and actually aim at specific targets.

The world outside the US looks on in stunned amazement at the Covid protests. What possesses people making a political street protest to take military style weapons along? Plus everywhere else the authorities would quickly arrest such idiots, and lock them up for quite some time.
Not a good look for a modern democracy, more like you would see in a failed state.

Daryl wrote:The world outside the US looks on in stunned amazement at the Covid protests. What possesses people making a political street protest to take military style weapons along? Plus everywhere else the authorities would quickly arrest such idiots, and lock them up for quite some time.
Not a good look for a modern democracy, more like you would see in a failed state.

Several serum studies have been done in California, both in the Bay Area and in the L.A. metro area, both of which show the rates of infection are actually millions higher than the official numbers. This kicks the infection/death ratio down to under 1%.
Many of the protestors are simply saying that the governments are NOT going to be allowed to bankrupt their businesses. Since the governments are not compensating the businesses owners for their loses, they are saying "Get the Hell out of our way so we can make a living."

doug941 wrote:Several serum studies have been done in California, both in the Bay Area and in the L.A. metro area, both of which show the rates of infection are actually millions higher than the official numbers. This kicks the infection/death ratio down to under 1%.
Many of the protestors are simply saying that the governments are NOT going to be allowed to bankrupt their businesses. Since the governments are not compensating the businesses owners for their loses, they are saying "Get the Hell out of our way so we can make a living."

A simple question, is one mans business more important than the possible death of another person?

Daryl wrote:The world outside the US looks on in stunned amazement at the Covid protests. What possesses people making a political street protest to take military style weapons along? Plus everywhere else the authorities would quickly arrest such idiots, and lock them up for quite some time.
Not a good look for a modern democracy, more like you would see in a failed state.

Depending on the state, carrying the rifles is not illegal. Unlike certain totalitarian regimes, American police are not empowered to arrest people for actions that are not illegal.

Contrast this to the actions of Canadian police during the Nova Scotia massacre. There are credible reports that the police warned people to take shelter, then the police opened fire on a fire station that people were sheltering in. Just to be fair, police in the US can FUBAR. In the incident with Frederick Hopkins in North Carolina, the police were claiming that they were outgunned. It turns out that Mr Hopkins fired 39 rounds while the police fired 390 rounds. Freddy was a bad boy, but he wasn't a trigger happy incompetent.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

Daryl wrote:The world outside the US looks on in stunned amazement at the Covid protests. What possesses people making a political street protest to take military style weapons along? Plus everywhere else the authorities would quickly arrest such idiots, and lock them up for quite some time.
Not a good look for a modern democracy, more like you would see in a failed state.

Depending on the state, carrying the rifles is not illegal. Unlike certain totalitarian regimes, American police are not empowered to arrest people for actions that are not illegal.

Contrast this to the actions of Canadian police during the Nova Scotia massacre. There are credible reports that the police warned people to take shelter, then the police opened fire on a fire station that people were sheltering in. Just to be fair, police in the US can FUBAR. In the incident with Frederick Hopkins in North Carolina, the police were claiming that they were outgunned. It turns out that Mr Hopkins fired 39 rounds while the police fired 390 rounds. Freddy was a bad boy, but he wasn't a trigger happy incompetent.

I admit that the sight of protesters with guns irritates me. But TFLY is right. Unless it is illegal, no one has the right to interfere.

If they start using the guns to intimidate or endanger people, it becomes a horse of an altogether different color.

Don

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Joat42 wrote:

doug941 wrote:Several serum studies have been done in California, both in the Bay Area and in the L.A. metro area, both of which show the rates of infection are actually millions higher than the official numbers. This kicks the infection/death ratio down to under 1%.
Many of the protestors are simply saying that the governments are NOT going to be allowed to bankrupt their businesses. Since the governments are not compensating the businesses owners for their loses, they are saying "Get the Hell out of our way so we can make a living."

A simple question, is one mans business more important than the possible death of another person?

I think that we haven't seen the bottom line on this yet. On the one hand, this is very deadly for a given group of people and a larger group become very ill. But a much stronger percentage become carriers, but show either very mild symptoms or no symptoms at all if the aforementioned studies are correct.

There does seem to be a silver lining here, two of them, actually. If this works out, "herd immunity" should occur a lot sooner than we were expecting as swiftly as it seems to spread. Secondly this means that there a much larger pool of blood donors to provide treatment for the ill.

But we probably need a wider group of studies to be making assumptions that this will work out this way. So, our gun toting protesters probably need to be patient a while longer.

The result of opening up Georgia is going to be interesting.

Don

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This response just reinforces my point. Carrying military style weapons in the street would be illegal virtually anywhere else. Saying that they weren't breaking the law may technically excuse them, but not their society.
I can remember fifty years ago going into our country town to shop with a rifle in a gun rack behind the seat of my ute (pickup). However it was a farming tool, and even then if I'd pulled it out I would have been arrested. "Going armed in public so as to cause fear" is a significant offence in this country.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

Daryl wrote:The world outside the US looks on in stunned amazement at the Covid protests. What possesses people making a political street protest to take military style weapons along? Plus everywhere else the authorities would quickly arrest such idiots, and lock them up for quite some time.
Not a good look for a modern democracy, more like you would see in a failed state.

Depending on the state, carrying the rifles is not illegal. Unlike certain totalitarian regimes, American police are not empowered to arrest people for actions that are not illegal.

Contrast this to the actions of Canadian police during the Nova Scotia massacre. There are credible reports that the police warned people to take shelter, then the police opened fire on a fire station that people were sheltering in. Just to be fair, police in the US can FUBAR. In the incident with Frederick Hopkins in North Carolina, the police were claiming that they were outgunned. It turns out that Mr Hopkins fired 39 rounds while the police fired 390 rounds. Freddy was a bad boy, but he wasn't a trigger happy incompetent.