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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Dilandu   » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:06 am

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Annachie wrote:
The true irony being that the 2nd was phrased that way to allow southern states to put down slave revolts.

It is literally a pro-slavery amendment.
It literally did not aply to all of "The People", nor has it ever been the blanket untouchable rule that gun nuts claim it is.


As far as I knew, it wasn't. It was just a state-level precaution against the possibility of federal government using military power to enforce the unpopular decisions.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:23 am

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Dilandu wrote:As far as I knew, it wasn't. It was just a state-level precaution against the possibility of federal government using military power to enforce the unpopular decisions.


Hmmm.

Wasn't the abolishment of slavery an "unpopular federal decision"?

Now, I'm not sure about the historical accuracy of claims that the second amendment was based on fear of a slave uprising... But slave uprisings certainly did happen, state-organized militias were the tools to put them down, and the southern slave patrols were organized by commissioned officers of the Militia. The argument that the second amendment was ratified in part to keep slave-owners happy is certainly a cogent one (although I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that there are strong arguments against such an interpretation).

Personally, based on the admittedly short amount of time I spent investigating these things, I'd say that while you can certainly show that slavery (and the related question of how you can create the police state necessary to enforce slavery on the scale of the southern states) was definitely a factor in the discussions surrounding the creation and ratification of the second amendment, it is very hard to make a definitive argument that it was one of the major factors in that process.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Dec 21, 2018 6:45 am

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Daryl wrote:I point out thousands of innocent young lives lost, and you come back with a cheesy slogan. I'm still at a loss to see how a bunch of disorganised rednecks having guns ensures personal freedom for a large country with an enormous standing army.!

smr wrote:A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Live Free or Die! :D


hmmmmm - Well regulated - that seems to be a key part of the amendment, as does the word Militia.

so hows does that figure in your thinking SMR?

do ALL these gun owners regularly go down to the militia centers and drill? Are there any militia centers?
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Joat42   » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:24 am

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smr wrote:https://www.theblaze.com/news/retired-marine-takes-down-armed-robber

E, this is a bar that might offend you delicate sense of honor and decorum.

I must point out that if it rains in Maine it doesn't necessarily mean that it rains in the whole of USA...

Regarding E's sense of honor and decorum - I doubt that the action referenced offend him at all, but I would guess that stupid statements offend him, as it does me.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:32 am

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smr wrote:https://www.theblaze.com/news/retired-marine-takes-down-armed-robber

E, this is a bar that might offend you delicate sense of honor and decorum.


Why?

All I see in that story is a store owner turning the tables on a would-be robber. Good on him, I'd say.

Also: It seems the retiree in question didn't use a gun to do this bit of self-defence, just keeping his cool and doing a bit of hand-to-hand against a nervous opponent; I don't see how this story makes any statement whatsoever about guns or gun regulations. I mean, it sure seems to me that if something similar had happened in a country with a functioning gun control regime, chances are that the would-be robber wouldn't have had a gun....
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:35 am

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Today I had a visit from two police officers. Quite polite and rang ahead, to check on my guns, security and existence. Only got five now, so didn't take long to get them out of storage and check serial numbers.
First visit in 22 years since the laws came in. No intent to "prise them out of my cold dead hands", just a bureaucratic tick.
Similar laws in the US would save many lives.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by edgeworthy   » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:48 pm

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Daryl wrote:Today I had a visit from two police officers. Quite polite and rang ahead, to check on my guns, security and existence. Only got five now, so didn't take long to get them out of storage and check serial numbers.
First visit in 22 years since the laws came in. No intent to "prise them out of my cold dead hands", just a bureaucratic tick.
Similar laws in the US would save many lives.

This sort of post makes me wish we had a "Like" button!
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by smr   » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:19 pm

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So you outlaw the Guns! How are you going to seize the weapons? I will not surrender my weapons. Who are you going to send to seize my weapons and my rights guaranteed under the 2nd amendment? I WILL NOT GO SILENTLY INTO THE NIGHT! GUARANTEED! The worst I ever done in my life is traffic tickets and parking tickets! I am productive member of society that pays his taxes and votes! The choice is your and consequences of what happens is yours! I will defend my rights and my family period! That is my choice and will be my actions. Live Free or Die!
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:55 pm

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So smr, if the 2nd is duely ammended, and lets all be honest here that's what it would take, you'd happily violate the constitution to keep them?

Because, face it, it's been violated or "creatively interpreted" since it was written. So why object to more? Or are you just happy that such violations generally suit you?
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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still not dead. :)
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:51 am

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I never suggested outlawing the guns. I did say that they need to be well regulated. I'm living free (not dead) with my legal guns. However if the legally elected government did decide to take them, so what?
Think about it. If it was decided that you weren't a fit and proper person to hold firearms and legal government officials (police?) were sent to your house to seize them, would you endanger your family by conducting a fire fight?
Now I've used a great many weapons from pistols and revolvers (Ruger Blackhawk 44 cal my favourite), to longarms (Brown Bess muskets), sniper rifles (Steyr 308, PH 243, Barrett 50 cal), assault rifles (M16, AK47, and Steyr AUG), and many more (Lewis, Owen, Sten, Vickers M60 and M58). If you include military weapons that I have authorised the firing of, then 155mm howitzers, Helfire missiles, MK 42 torpedoes, and many more add to the list.
I know weapons, their use and effects. Some suburbanite who has fired a couple of minor personal side arms can't impress me as to how macho they are,

smr wrote:So you outlaw the Guns! How are you going to seize the weapons? I will not surrender my weapons. Who are you going to send to seize my weapons and my rights guaranteed under the 2nd amendment? I WILL NOT GO SILENTLY INTO THE NIGHT! GUARANTEED! The worst I ever done in my life is traffic tickets and parking tickets! I am productive member of society that pays his taxes and votes! The choice is your and consequences of what happens is yours! I will defend my rights and my family period! That is my choice and will be my actions. Live Free or Die!
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