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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by MAD-4A   » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:58 pm

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Annachie wrote:Mad, we had a 10 year war between crime gangs down here in Melbourne Oz...

I didn't say that kind of thing can't happen, I said MOST of the time - when they are run by competent leaders who know what they are doing - it doesn't.
I bet that war really cost those gangs a butt-load. If the morons had negotiated instead of being moron thugs they wouldn't have lost so much and would have made more profits. As you say, it was a 'war' and on the news with cops running all over the place trying to hunt them down, not undeceive to good business, scares off customers, facilities, product and capitol (piles of cash) being lost/raided/destroyed. A competent crime lord is one who nobody notices and who runs his criminal enterprise as just that, an enterprise. Making money - on the qt - not running around shooting people.
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Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Michael Everett   » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:08 am

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MAD-4A wrote:A competent crime lord is one who nobody notices and who runs his criminal enterprise as just that, an enterprise. Making money - on the qt - not running around shooting people.

Ah, just like the Authorities (FBI, CIA etc) thought Danny Hebert was in the story Taylor Varga.
(Scene here is currently an Omake, but may become canon...)

Got it.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by biochem   » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:19 am

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Re outlawing bump stocks.

I'm actually against this on the military grounds of don't issue an order you know won't be obeyed.

Machine guns are actually legal in the USA. However, to legally own a machine gun, it requires a special permit from the government. This requires extremely intensive background checks, all machine guns must be registered with the federal government, it is expensive etc etc. Very very few people actually go through with the arduous process and those who do either are collectors who are super into it or do it for business purposes (gun range owners - who then charge people to shoot the machine gun at their range). However, a legal process does actually exist, which people can go through if they really really want to. That provides an alternative to "not obeying the order". It's also been effective. Legally owned machine guns are virtually never used in a criminal manner and there aren't a lot of machines guns floating around in the hands of otherwise law abiding people.

We should do the same for bump stocks and the various other conversion kits rather than outlaw them outright (a law which is certain to be disobeyed).
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:12 am

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You don't give orders which will be disobeyed.

So why is marajuana illegal. There's a law that will be ignored.

Abortions. They keep happening even when illegal. They just get more dangerous.
Driving while drunk. Scary numbers on that.

Why is it only guns that you don't put decent laws on because the laws will be ignored/broken?
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:47 am

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Annachie wrote:You don't give orders which will be disobeyed.

So why is marajuana illegal. There's a law that will be ignored.

Abortions. They keep happening even when illegal. They just get more dangerous.
Driving while drunk. Scary numbers on that.

Why is it only guns that you don't put decent laws on because the laws will be ignored/broken?


The reasoning (as opposed to my personal opinion) goes something like:

Despite the comment of Judge Brandeis that no right is absolute, there are those who have their own skewed concept of Stare Decicis which is to ignore it. Their right to own guns is absolute because it says so right there in the text of the Amendment "...shall not be abridged." So by the original intent (unsurprisingly identical to bible literal interpretation)doctrine, We have the inalienable divine right to own firearms and no man may make laws to sunder us from our weapons.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:07 am

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There does seem to be a correlation with religious fervor and the belief in the absolute right to have as many guns of what ever type you want. Some PHD student someday will do a thesis based on autopsies of brains of such people versus the general population. I did read a report of something similar that showed that very conservative people had larger lobes in the fight or flight areas, but that may have been fake news so don't quote me.

pappilon wrote:
Annachie wrote:You don't give orders which will be disobeyed.

So why is marajuana illegal. There's a law that will be ignored.

Abortions. They keep happening even when illegal. They just get more dangerous.
Driving while drunk. Scary numbers on that.

Why is it only guns that you don't put decent laws on because the laws will be ignored/broken?


The reasoning (as opposed to my personal opinion) goes something like:

Despite the comment of Judge Brandeis that no right is absolute, there are those who have their own skewed concept of Stare Decicis which is to ignore it. Their right to own guns is absolute because it says so right there in the text of the Amendment "...shall not be abridged." So by the original intent (unsurprisingly identical to bible literal interpretation)doctrine, We have the inalienable divine right to own firearms and no man may make laws to sunder us from our weapons.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:45 am

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pappilon wrote:The reasoning (as opposed to my personal opinion) goes something like:

Despite the comment of Judge Brandeis that no right is absolute, there are those who have their own skewed concept of Stare Decicis which is to ignore it. Their right to own guns is absolute because it says so right there in the text of the Amendment "...shall not be abridged." So by the original intent (unsurprisingly identical to bible literal interpretation)doctrine, We have the inalienable divine right to own firearms and no man may make laws to sunder us from our weapons.


Amazing how those strict literalists so concerned with original intent always manage to forget the entire first half of the amendment they are so reverent of and that whole part about well regulated militias.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by MAD-4A   » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:09 pm

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gcomeau wrote:Amazing how those strict literalists so concerned with original intent always manage to forget the entire first half of the amendment they are so reverent of and that whole part about well regulated militias.
Which says NOTHING about "members of the 'well regulated militias' only." The first part is a preamble for the anti-gun nuts. The actual phrasing of the Amendment states clearly "shall not be abridged" not "for members of the militia only."
The police keep claiming "don't take matters into your own hand! Call the police and let us take care of it." but when crimes do happen, were are they? What do they do? answer; At the donut shop and "come over and write a report, and a ticket if we can find an excuse."
What happened when my car was stolen?
They came over and wrote a report, then drove around looking for tickets to extort, until someone called (a week later) to complain about a (my) abandoned vehicle. Where was it you ask? oh, at the back of the cemetery, across the back fence from the police station, about a hundred feet from their coffee pot - that's were! How did they help me, oh yea, towed my car and made me pay a towing fee - I couldn't have made it without that fee, it saved my life! :roll:
When my friends pickup got stole, what did they do - same thing, only I actually found the thief and called it in, but he got away, I wasn't willing to run quite so many stop signs, not that there were any cops to be found. To be fair, they did catch him later, and gave him a ticket then let him go WITH THE TRUCK!
Then there was my friends purse - idiot put it on top of the car and we went back looking for it. Some psycho came out of a nearby house waving a gun (yes a gun - probably illegal and unregistered) and yelling. I called the cops and - where were they - still waiting for them to show up.

So - Why do citizens need their own guns? With all this police protection ... how are there any citizens left?


Saw and old Laurel and Hardy movie, tells it like it is;
Desk Sergeant standing behind the front desk at the station:
phone rings
Hello ... WHAT! Someone's been murdered?! Aw ... that happens all the time, call back when you've got some news. (hangs up)
phone rings
Hello ... Los Angeles is burning down?! oh, all right, I'll send someone to take a look. (hangs up)
phone rings
Hello ... there's a car parked on the wrong side of the street? CALL OUT THE RESERVES!!! (bell-ding! ding! ding! ding!)
-
Almost only counts in Horseshoes and Nuclear Weapons. I almost got the Hand-Grenade out the window does not count.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by pappilon   » Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:50 am

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MAD-4A wrote:
gcomeau wrote:Amazing how those strict literalists so concerned with original intent always manage to forget the entire first half of the amendment they are so reverent of and that whole part about well regulated militias.
Which says NOTHING about "members of the 'well regulated militias' only." The first part is a preamble for the anti-gun nuts. The actual phrasing of the Amendment states clearly "shall not be abridged" not "for members of the militia only."
The police keep claiming "don't take matters into your own hand! Call the police and let us take care of it." but when crimes do happen, were are they? What do they do? answer; At the donut shop and "come over and write a report, and a ticket if we can find an excuse."
What happened when my car was stolen?
They came over and wrote a report, then drove around looking for tickets to extort, until someone called (a week later) to complain about a (my) abandoned vehicle. Where was it you ask? oh, at the back of the cemetery, across the back fence from the police station, about a hundred feet from their coffee pot - that's were! How did they help me, oh yea, towed my car and made me pay a towing fee - I couldn't have made it without that fee, it saved my life! :roll:
When my friends pickup got stole, what did they do - same thing, only I actually found the thief and called it in, but he got away, I wasn't willing to run quite so many stop signs, not that there were any cops to be found. To be fair, they did catch him later, and gave him a ticket then let him go WITH THE TRUCK!
Then there was my friends purse - idiot put it on top of the car and we went back looking for it. Some psycho came out of a nearby house waving a gun (yes a gun - probably illegal and unregistered) and yelling. I called the cops and - where were they - still waiting for them to show up.

So - Why do citizens need their own guns? With all this police protection ... how are there any citizens left?


Saw and old Laurel and Hardy movie, tells it like it is;
Desk Sergeant standing behind the front desk at the station:
phone rings
Hello ... WHAT! Someone's been murdered?! Aw ... that happens all the time, call back when you've got some news. (hangs up)
phone rings
Hello ... Los Angeles is burning down?! oh, all right, I'll send someone to take a look. (hangs up)
phone rings
Hello ... there's a car parked on the wrong side of the street? CALL OUT THE RESERVES!!! (bell-ding! ding! ding! ding!)


I can only claim Stare Decisis and Article VI of the US Constitution: District of Columbia v Heller 554 U.S. 570 (2008), McDonald v. Chicago (561 U.S._(2010).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:24 am

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True. In Heller SCOTUS did go against long standing precedent in that flawed decision.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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