Guns, Guns Guns

Still don't see an answer to my question.

I'll repeat it again: Are black people over-represented in crime-statics because they are black or because of other factors?

Joat42 wrote:Still don't see an answer to my question.

I'll repeat it again: Are black people over-represented in crime-statics because they are black or because of other factors?

Black people are "over-represented" in crime statistics because they commit more crimes. If they object to the police arresting a disproportionate number of black suspects, they should cease committing a disproportionate share of crimes.

It is very simple, but you refuse to understand.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

Joat42 wrote:Still don't see an answer to my question.

I'll repeat it again: Are black people over-represented in crime-statics because they are black or because of other factors?

Black people are "over-represented" in crime statistics because they commit more crimes. If they object to the police arresting a disproportionate number of black suspects, they should cease committing a disproportionate share of crimes.

It is very simple, but you refuse to understand.

No, either you are dodging the question or you can't comprehend the question.

If I change my language a bit so even you will understand perhaps I will get an answer: Do black people commit crimes because they are black or because of other factors?

Shit, that wasn’t angry; merely disgusted. Silly internet bullshit is not worthy of angry.

Joat42 wrote:Did you just make that shit up? Nobody here have been talking about a conspiracy, what has been said is that the police in the US suffers from systemic issues.

You have been told, but you do not know. I will explain again, and this time, pay attention.

There IS NO ’The Police In The US’. Repeat that until you get it. We have more than 5,000 completely separate and independent law enforcement organizations spread across a country the size of Europe. The police departments in Boston, New York, Detroit and San Francisco have nothing to do with each other. San Francisco is farther from New York than Lisbon is from Moscow! Consequently, in order for all of those different police departments, or even a substantial number of them, to have those ‘systemic issues’ would indeed require some sort of nationwide conspiracy.

You might as well claim that all of 'The Police In Europe' have 'systemic issues', in every country.

Funny thing, though — they’ve found the same rioters in cities hundreds of miles apart. They’re in Baltimore one day, in St. Louis a week later, and turn up in Chicago a week after that. Putting it in terms you’d be familiar with, that would be like traveling from Berlin to Le Mans and then to Zurich, to participate in the…festivities.

The cities that are having those supposed ‘systemic issues’ are left-wing, and have been since the 1960’s. The conservatives packed up and moved out years ago.

Joat42 wrote:If I change my language a bit so even you will understand perhaps I will get an answer: Do black people commit crimes because they are black or because of other factors?

Oh, now you’re asking why so many blacks commit crimes.

Short answer: because for 50 years they have been lied to and fucked over by the Democrats, in collusion with race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton.

Longer answer:

Because they have been told every day of their lives that they need ‘help’ from the government, and that they can’t succeed by their own efforts.

Because the black family structure has been destroyed by four generations of welfare dependency.

Because so many black girls get pregnant before they’re 16, because the government pays them to get pregnant before they’re 16, while the boys that got them pregnant are out on the streets in gangs.

Because of the ‘war on (some) drugs’ which nobody can admit has been a lost cause for about 60 years.

Because they have been trapped in dysfunctional union-controlled government schools that can’t even teach them to read and do math. Or keep the drug pushers out of the bathrooms.

Because they have never been taught to value reading, and math. Most of their mothers can’t read or do math either. The world is literally a closed book to them.

Because they have been told, and shown, that they are not responsible for their own actions. Instead of consequences, they get excuses.

Because for those not politically connected it is almost impossible to own a gun legally in those Democrat-ruled cities, so almost everyone who decides they need a gun for self-defense is instantly declared a criminal.

Because they are told to reject ‘white culture’ — which is defined as pretty much everything that leads to success in our society. Learning useful skills, getting and holding a job that does not involve dealing ‘recreational’ drugs, being a responsible adult, obeying the law, and so on.

Because their role models are pushers, pimps and gang punks, while the people who should be their role models, stable middle-class black families with steady jobs, are denounced as either ‘slaves to whitey’ or as ‘race traitors’ for ‘sellin’ out’ and ‘actin’ white’.

All of those ‘policies’ have been directed specifically at inner-city blacks by the Democrats, and they either deliberately ignore the actual results, or they don’t care.

It has taken the Democrats 50 years to get things this fucked up, and now they gleefully proclaim that they are just getting started.
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Everything the Democrats do makes perfect sense once you realize that they have given up on getting people to want to vote for them, and are putting all their efforts into making people afraid to vote against them.

Imaginos1892 wrote:You have been told, but you do not know. I will explain again, and this time, pay attention.

There IS NO ’The Police In The US’. Repeat that until you get it. We have more than 5,000 completely separate and independent law enforcement organizations spread across a country the size of Europe. The police departments in Boston, New York, Detroit and San Francisco have nothing to do with each other. San Francisco is farther from New York than Lisbon is from Moscow! Consequently, in order for all of those different police departments, or even a substantial number of them, to have those ‘systemic issues’ would indeed require some sort of nationwide conspiracy.

So, all those separate law enforcement agencies across the USA is never generically referred to as "the police in the US". If you want it that way, I can then say "many law enforcement agencies in the US has systemic issues" instead if it makes you happy. And it doesn't require a "conspiracy", all that's needed is a wide-spread blue culture that protects the bad apples within the law enforcement agencies. And if there is no problems, why are so many officers and police unions resisting reforms around the accountability of the actions of police officers?

Imaginos1892 wrote:Oh, now you’re asking why so many blacks commit crimes.

To be present in crime-statistics you need to be involved in a crime. I thought you understood that since you started talking about 'cause and effect' earlier, but I guess I was wrong.

Imaginos1892 wrote:Short answer: because for 50 years they have been lied to and fucked over by the Democrats, in collusion with race hustlers like Jackson and Sharpton.

So, everything is the Democrats fault. Funny that, I thought the US have had a majority of republican governments the last 50 years. To bad they then seem to have been totally unable to combat the Democrats unintentional plan of foster blacks to become criminals...

I've never been to the US, although have seen a lot of the rest of the world, so can only speak second hand from what is in the news, and the many posts on many topics on here. However I do want to understand, so please excuse my questions as being curious, not intentionally insulting.
It appears that there are many very successful black US citizens, with good incomes and education. At the same time it also appears that there are many white US citizens who are ill educated and with low incomes, as evidenced by Clinton's "deplorables" and Trump's rallies. Thus the situation isn't simple, black = gangs, white = successful.

Imaginos's allocation of blame to the Democrats appears totally implausible. Would the Republican's have somehow rescued all those by the wayside? What he describes is a rudimentary welfare net, more intensive versions of which work very well across the other developed nations, without the consequences he lists.

The bit about various police services reinforces my understanding that the country is indeed the United - States of America, or in other words a gaggle of semi independent entities loosely connected at a federal level. From an outsider's view point it is astounding that it works, let alone is the most powerful nation overall. I would still say that all of these law enforcement agencies are operating in the same environment, of knowing that there is a good chance that the bad guys are armed. This doesn't apply in other developed countries, rare for the baddies to have firearms. This must colour the way they approach suspects.

As an aside I'd like to mention the Canadian blue eyed experiment, that proved that if you treat one section of society like second class citizens, for long enough, they become second class citizens.

Daryl wrote:I've never been to the US, although have seen a lot of the rest of the world, so can only speak second hand from what is in the news, and the many posts on many topics on here. However I do want to understand, so please excuse my questions as being curious, not intentionally insulting.
It appears that there are many very successful black US citizens, with good incomes and education. At the same time it also appears that there are many white US citizens who are ill educated and with low incomes, as evidenced by Clinton's "deplorables" and Trump's rallies. Thus the situation isn't simple, black = gangs, white = successful.

Imaginos's allocation of blame to the Democrats appears totally implausible. Would the Republican's have somehow rescued all those by the wayside? What he describes is a rudimentary welfare net, more intensive versions of which work very well across the other developed nations, without the consequences he lists.

The bit about various police services reinforces my understanding that the country is indeed the United - States of America, or in other words a gaggle of semi independent entities loosely connected at a federal level. From an outsider's view point it is astounding that it works, let alone is the most powerful nation overall. I would still say that all of these law enforcement agencies are operating in the same environment, of knowing that there is a good chance that the bad guys are armed. This doesn't apply in other developed countries, rare for the baddies to have firearms. This must colour the way they approach suspects.

As an aside I'd like to mention the Canadian blue eyed experiment, that proved that if you treat one section of society like second class citizens, for long enough, they become second class citizens.

Actually; it was an American who did the Blue Eyed experiment. Google it.

Interestingly; people do not need to be told to be prejudiced. They do it naturally. The actor Charlton Heston noticed this self segregation while he was filming the initial PLANET OF THE APES movie. During lunch in the cafeteria, the actors dressed as Chimpanzees sat with the other Chimpanzees while the Gorillas sat separately and the Orangatans sat apart. The smallest group who were humans were ostracised by all the others.


America is almost unique because we are an industrialized society that not only has a history of slavery but almost all of the slaves were members of one racee and almost all members of that race were slaves. Furthermore; most of the descendants of the slaves are easily identified by their skin pigmentation and often facial features. Almost every pre-industrial civilization on the planet had some form of slavery, but the descendants of the slaves are not readily identifiable. The US along with some parts of Africa remain the exception.

I have explained some of the issues pertaining to low arrest rates and other factors in simplistic terms that even Joat should be able to understand. Many of these issues such as abysmally low crime clearance rates can be addressed by America's white majority. However; many of the factors are a function of a segment of black culture.

In making this point, I have failed to address the fact that homicide rates among blacks vary widely from community to community. The proportion of people in a community who are black is strongly associated with higher crime and homicide rates. Cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Chicago that have a very large proportion of black people have the highest crime and homicide rates in the US. These communities have the lowest clearance rates and conviction rates. It isn't African genetics. In cities that have a small minority of black people, the homicide rate for blacks tends to be higher than for whites but it is still an order of magnitude lower than in predominantly black communities. It is the predominant African-American culture, not the genetics that is the problem.

Joat42 wrote:So, everything is the Democrats fault. Funny that, I thought the US have had a majority of republican governments the last 50 years.

The federal government wanders back and forth between Democrats and Republicans, a few of the state governments change hands once in a while, but most of our big cities have been under continuous Democrat rule at least since the 1960’s, some since before World War 1, and wouldn’t ya know it, they’re the very cities where Democrats are blaming those ‘systemic issues’ on ‘conservatives’. Boston, New York, Baltimore, Washington DC, Trenton, St. Louis, New Orleans, Detroit, Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland; almost all of the cities with the highest crime rates, and the highest minority crime rates, are completely owned by the Democrats. So are their police departments. So are their schools.

There are other cities of comparable size that have NOT been ruled by Democrats for decades, where blacks — well, where most of the people — are better off, with much lower crime rates. The correlation is uncannily consistent. Cities have more crime, more poverty, and more ‘police incidents’ the longer they are ruled by Democrats.

Correlation may not necessarily equal causation, but it is surely indicative.

Daryl wrote:Would the Republican's have somehow rescued all those by the wayside?

The Republican party has drifted left until it’s effectively the Democrat-Lite party. Hell, Trump is a Democrat who ran for president as a Republican! Conservatives don’t get any support from either party. Look what happened to the TEA Party faction — which stood for Taxed Enough Already. All they wanted was to stop raising taxes, cut the growth of spending, reduce the deficit, stop expanding the government, and keep it from becoming even more intrusive, and look at the hate they got from Republican AND Democrat party apparatchiks.

Both parties are completely disconnected from the people they are supposed to represent. Voters wind up with a choice between bad, worse, and what-the-hell-did-we-do-to-deserve-THIS?

Joat42 wrote:And if there is no problems, why are so many officers and police unions resisting reforms around the accountability of the actions of police officers?

Union executives and management are monolithically Democrat, no matter how the actual members feel about it. In those Democrat-ruled cities, if you want a job, especially a job with the city government, you are automatically placed in the ‘appropriate’ union. You don’t have a choice to not join, or even to join a different union.
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Governments can only print money; they can't make it worth anything. They can make it worth nothing.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:..snip..
In making this point, I have failed to address the fact that homicide rates among blacks vary widely from community to community. The proportion of people in a community who are black is strongly associated with higher crime and homicide rates. Cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Chicago that have a very large proportion of black people have the highest crime and homicide rates in the US. These communities have the lowest clearance rates and conviction rates. It isn't African genetics. In cities that have a small minority of black people, the homicide rate for blacks tends to be higher than for whites but it is still an order of magnitude lower than in predominantly black communities. It is the predominant African-American culture, not the genetics that is the problem.

You might want to check those figures. From the statistics I've seen those cities are in the average group compared to the rest of the large cities. For some reason they use absolute numbers when talking about Chicago but percentages when it's other cities.

Joat42 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:..snip..
In making this point, I have failed to address the fact that homicide rates among blacks vary widely from community to community. The proportion of people in a community who are black is strongly associated with higher crime and homicide rates. Cities such as Chicago, Detroit and Chicago that have a very large proportion of black people have the highest crime and homicide rates in the US. These communities have the lowest clearance rates and conviction rates. It isn't African genetics. In cities that have a small minority of black people, the homicide rate for blacks tends to be higher than for whites but it is still an order of magnitude lower than in predominantly black communities. It is the predominant African-American culture, not the genetics that is the problem.

You might want to check those figures. From the statistics I've seen those cities are in the average group compared to the rest of the large cities. For some reason they use absolute numbers when talking about Chicago but percentages when it's other cities.

Wrong.

To find data on homicide numbers for particular demographic groups within a particular jurisdiction, you need to access the FBI'S Supplementary Homicide Reports. You can then use census data to estimate homicide rates within the demographic groups for each jurisdiction.

I know that this is complicated, perhaps too complicated for you.