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Post election musings

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Re: Post election musings
Post by n7axw   » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:57 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
n7axw wrote:
That is really the underlying question in my own mind when I started this thread. Even worse than killing themselves, they could kill our democracy. I don't have answers. But those of us still sober need to start looking for some...

Don

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Step 1 is recognizing that this isn't something that just happened. We didn't just coincidentally end up with a massive segment of the US population incapable of engaging with facts... that was the engineered result of a decades long project by the Republican party and US conservatives to create a voter base that was as thoroughly insulated from reality as possible and could thus be sold any absolute BS the party needed them to believe.

It's why Fox News exists. It's why right wing talk radio exists. There was a recent incident on Fox News where one host said to another, on air "Nixon never would have been forced to resign if you existed in your current state back in 1972, ’73, ’74"

That is two prominent right wing commentators accidentally discussing the quiet part out loud. Fox News would have prevented a GUILTY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT from being removed from office if they had existed to feed alternate reality to the Republican voter masses back in the day. That's what they are there for. And they're proud of it.

And the bottom line? It is not fixable as long as that media ecosystem continues to exist, because it has absolutely conditioned it's denizens to reject as false any information that does not come from inside it.


To use some tongue in cheek, how do we manage to infect the right wing media ecosystem with a fatal virus? Hope you have ideas. I suspect it starts with interfering with their revenue stream...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Post election musings
Post by Arol   » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:21 pm

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“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it…
Joseph Goebbels
The B.O.M. has certainly taken this little axiom to heart, and is riding it for all it’s worth!
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Re: Post election musings
Post by n7axw   » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:22 pm

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Another musing...

Donald Trump is an outlier. This is most certainly true. I doubt that anyone could duplicate this incompetent buffoon in the wildest dreams of a fevered imagination. In a way, we were lucky. What if we would had to deal with someone with Trump's authoritarian bent who knew the rules and how to circumvent them rather than openly smashing them with combat boots, someone smooth rather than rough cut. In a sense, Trump made himself an easy target whose outlandish and openly illegal behavior were right out in the open for all to see. In that sense we were lucky.

My next thought is that all of this is a predictor of trouble which lies ahead. Huge numbers of people were willing to buy into the incomptent buffoon and give him 71+ million votes? Why? I don't know. But I see three possible reasons. One would be that they have bought into the con. These would be the hardliners who are buying into all the conspiracy stuff. Another group would be folk who see through Trump, but like liberals even less. Finally there are the probusiness types who have been around forever. I think that the hardliners are about a third of Trump's overall vote total, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess as to how the other 2/3s breaks out.

Part of this may be economic disparity. But my suspicion is that the culture wars are playing a large role. I have long thought that the Republican Party routinely betrays lower class voters by feeding them a slap dash of religion at the same time it shovels money toward Wall Street as fast as possible.

At any rate, over the immediate term, at least, we will be in for a bumpy ride.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Post election musings
Post by Daryl   » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:13 am

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Don.
I'll try to not offend you, as I do respect your intellect and integrity.
However I have noticed that there tends to be a correlation between acceptance of religion and conspiracy theories.
Trump cheated on his first wife with his second, then on his second with his third, then on his third with porn stars. Those are just the ones we know about. As well his behaviour in other ways has been markedly against many Christian teachings. Yet he gets the Bible Belt vote. Is it because of conspiracy theories, or a fear of communism (laughable I know), or perhaps a lack of education in critical thinking? Do his red belt followers simply accept the big lies? Do they want simple one syllable explanations of complex matters regardless of how incorrect they are?
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Re: Post election musings
Post by ZVar   » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:02 pm

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Daryl wrote:Don.
I'll try to not offend you, as I do respect your intellect and integrity.
However I have noticed that there tends to be a correlation between acceptance of religion and conspiracy theories.
Trump cheated on his first wife with his second, then on his second with his third, then on his third with porn stars. Those are just the ones we know about. As well his behaviour in other ways has been markedly against many Christian teachings. Yet he gets the Bible Belt vote. Is it because of conspiracy theories, or a fear of communism (laughable I know), or perhaps a lack of education in critical thinking? Do his red belt followers simply accept the big lies? Do they want simple one syllable explanations of complex matters regardless of how incorrect they are?


It's much simpler than that. Every Republican I know, of which are all rural farmer types that grew up in the little white church down the road, hate him. They still vote for him because that pastor of the little white church says it's murder to vote Democrat because they support the woman's right to her own body.

Every rural Republican I know, which is extended family and friends, will gladly kill thousands of people a year (no universal health care) to be able to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her own body (abortion.)
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Re: Post election musings
Post by n7axw   » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:03 pm

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Daryl wrote:Don.
I'll try to not offend you, as I do respect your intellect and integrity.
However I have noticed that there tends to be a correlation between acceptance of religion and conspiracy theories.
Trump cheated on his first wife with his second, then on his second with his third, then on his third with porn stars. Those are just the ones we know about. As well his behaviour in other ways has been markedly against many Christian teachings. Yet he gets the Bible Belt vote. Is it because of conspiracy theories, or a fear of communism (laughable I know), or perhaps a lack of education in critical thinking? Do his red belt followers simply accept the big lies? Do they want simple one syllable explanations of complex matters regardless of how incorrect they are?


There is really no simple answer to this question. In fact I could write a book about it. But in my opinion, the evangelicals have taken a wrong turn and lost their way. Back in the Billy Graham era, you know what evangelicals stood for... salvation through faith in Jesus. That they proclaimed with great integrity.

But now? What they stand for publically is for being against abortion and gays. They have been reduced from preaching the gospel in the public square to being just another political pressure group trying to jam their perspectives down everybody else's throat.

Enter the opportunity to "try to do the work of God" by making a compact with the devil. Enter Donald Trump. The deal? We ignore your personal character and support you and you give us the conservative judges we need to overturn Roe v Wade and suppress homosexuality. Trump held up his end of the bargain, the consequences of which we have yet to see.

The consequences for the evangelicals are becoming catastrophic. Their young people are walking away, shamed and embarrassed by the hypocrisy of their elders.

There are some signs of hope over there however. Voices of dissent are being raised over their present course. Perhaps the world will once again be able to hear the evangelicals as church proclaiming the faith.

That is the short answer to your question, Daryl. Placing this in context and historical perspective would require a much longer answer.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Post election musings
Post by Daryl   » Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:16 pm

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Trump's latest is that he will concede after Biden proves that the election wasn't fraudulent. Maybe Biden can use Trump's 2016 proof as a guide?
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Re: Post election musings
Post by n7axw   » Sun Nov 29, 2020 9:21 pm

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The next step in this ever evolving scenario is that Biden has to be able to prove that he got 80,000,000 votes to enter the White House...

In the meantime covid skyrockets as both deaths and hospitalizations skyrocket. But that doesn't matter, does it? After all, It's really all about Trump.

In the meantime the electoral college is go In to vote on Dec. 14, I think. And the inauguration will be January 20th. Somehow I don't think Trump will get a say in how that comes down...

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Post election musings
Post by cthia   » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:35 am

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Out of the mouth of babes

My sister expressed disbelief about Trump going down to Georgia regarding the election results.

My niece said, "Mom, there is a song about the Devil going down to Georgia."

:lol:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Post election musings
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:34 am

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So as things wind down on this administration the inevitable is of course happening.

Trump is in full meltdown mode against having to honor the results of elections, now even accusing his own DOJ of being "Fake News" after Barr said they had found no evidence of widespread voter fraud.

Stories are flying left and right that Trump is thinking of following up the Flynn pardon with a whole range of other pre-emptive pardons for his family members and close associates to insulate them against being federally prosecuted for the crimes they've been committing.

Despite "Q" having vanished since election day most of the QAnon lunatic asylum still haven't figured out they spent the last four years building a cult based on an internet troll who was playing them all for gullible idiots, and are screaming about the election being fraudulent and still fully expect a last minute reveal of Trump's secret genius plan to stay in office a second term. Which of course Trump and his cronies keep cheering on.

Trump is taking a whole range of actions in his lame duck period to deliberately sabotage US foreign and domestic policy to make sure Biden has the biggest possible mess to clean up when he does take office. Because of course he is, he doesn't give a shit what the voters said they wanted or about leaving the country in a good state when he leaves, he's only ever cared about himself.

In other words... the dumpster fire is raging and being fueled and there's no access to a fire extinguisher until January.
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