Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

The end of American democracy?

The Management is not responsible for the contents of this forum. Enter at your own risk.
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by Arol   » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:27 pm

Arol
Commander

Posts: 236
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:55 am
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

The hundred odd insurrectionists that so far have been apprehended will face some pretty serious charges; especially if they are brought to DC to stand trial, and will no doubt be looking at mounting legal expenses. ;)
This is where the B.O.M.’s 2-3 hundred million dollar legal slush fund that was set up to fund his “Stop the Steal” campaign will fulfil its purpose. :P
He could simply use it to dole out the legal fees for the pinheads that took him at his words!!! :lol:
I’d give a lot to be a fly on the wall when he got the first request! :twisted:
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:29 pm

C. O. Thompson
Captain of the List

Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Thompson, CT USA

-[/quote]
I'm at the office, can't stream the live feed since most people here work remotely and they have clamped down on streaming to conserve bandwidth.

It seems there are only 7 republicans pandering to the Trump-mob in the hopes of gaining votes for the next election-cycle, so at this point they only delay the inevitable while looking like assholes to a sane person.

The reactions outside of the USA speaks volumes, the images from Capitol Hill and the mob forcing their way in have most people comparing the USA to some failed banana republic.

What's worse, the USA has lost ALL credibility at this point, and China is happily rubbing it in everywhere it can. It will take decades for the USA mitigate the damage it has done to it's international reputation. It's something Biden won't be able to fix during his presidential period for the simple reason no-one will trust the USA until it is shown that people like Trump won't be elected again in the future.[/quote]

Actually the 7 you are referring to are senators. When the House voted, it was 133 in support of Trump.

Yes, I agree with the rest of your post. After Jan. 20, the grown ups will be back in charge and the process of reconciliation and repair can begin. It appears that the Republican Party might split, a process that could keep them from the levers of power for a long time.

Personally, while I agree with you about the international side, I am far more concerned with us not getting another Trump than you are. We definitely don't need another dictator on the make...

The deed is done. Joe Biden is now the president elect officially until his inauguration at witch time his term begins. It is 3 am and the party is over. I am going to bed.

Don

-[/quote]

Don,
While I agree that the grown ups will soon be back in charge, the enablers are still in position to obstruct.

The children should be sent to time out or spanked but there is a history of lack of will to see justice done.
As the contrast in response between the BLM protestors and these insurrectionist made clear to anyone who is capable to accept "objective truth"

I hope I am wrong but, fear that failure to take this opportunity to really re-balance our government and clean up our justice system, we never will.
There is strong evidence that the oligarchs have take over.

What Trump called the "deep state" others call a "shadow government"

They are not elected or accountable and see their tools as canon fodder to be discarded if they become a liability.

But their supporters have a "I might win the lottery" mentality.

The next four years, the next decade will be pivotal... either we turn back from the decline of our government or we start seeing arm bands

Stay Safe
Avoid the Mobs
Just my 2 ₡ worth
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by The E   » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:09 am

The E
Admiral

Posts: 2545
Joined: Tue May 07, 2013 12:28 pm
Location: Bielefeld, Germany

C. O. Thompson wrote:I hope I am wrong but, fear that failure to take this opportunity to really re-balance our government and clean up our justice system, we never will.
There is strong evidence that the oligarchs have take over.


What gave it away, is it the number of people from the moneyed classes sitting in elected positions?

I joke, but yeah: here's hoping that a) the GOP fractures itself into irrelevance for the next decade and b) that the activists currently pushing for a leftward swing will get the momentum they need to actually affect policy.

It's kinda telling that the GOP under Trump believes itself to be the party of the common man, the rural red state small business owner types, when in fact the surest indicator of being a Trump voter is to make in excess of 100k USD per year.

The next four years, the next decade will be pivotal... either we turn back from the decline of our government or we start seeing arm bands


The armbands are already here though.
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by isaac_newton   » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:29 pm

isaac_newton
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:37 am
Location: Brighton, UK

n7axw wrote: SNIP
I think you got this right. One possible mitigating factor was that security was too short handed to gather everybody up who needed to be gathered up. The short answer here is a question, why? I don't think we will like the answer once all is out...

Further reinforcing your point a man convicted of driving his pickup through a crowd last summer was given parole rather than being locked up... Pretty cushy, huh...

I don't have any faith that more than a fraction of the rioters will be caught or that they will get more than a slap on the fingers if caught. Let's hope that I'm wrong...

Don

IIRC Trump had recently replaced a number of people at top of various security related departments/organisations.

Maybe thay had orders to 'stand back' or walk softly on the 6th.

If that was so, I'm sure it will be 'very interesting' when the security reviews inevitable follow, and this time there wont be any holding back by the investigators. :-)

I'd be feeling v nervous indeed if I was one of those people.
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:47 pm

C. O. Thompson
Captain of the List

Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Thompson, CT USA

isaac_newton wrote:
n7axw wrote: SNIP
I think you got this right. One possible mitigating factor was that security was too short handed to gather everybody up who needed to be gathered up. The short answer here is a question, why? I don't think we will like the answer once all is out...

Further reinforcing your point a man convicted of driving his pickup through a crowd last summer was given parole rather than being locked up... Pretty cushy, huh...

I don't have any faith that more than a fraction of the rioters will be caught or that they will get more than a slap on the fingers if caught. Let's hope that I'm wrong...

Don

IIRC Trump had recently replaced a number of people at top of various security related departments/organisations.


Stand Back??? I didn't think he could say that!!
At lease he could not say that to the proud boyz :lol:
Just my 2 ₡ worth
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:48 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5832
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Well, we are getting closer to the inauguration. It will be an enormous relief to get past it. I hope that it happens without more violence or loss of life..

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by n7axw   » Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:08 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5832
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

C. O. Thompson wrote:-

I'm at the office, can't stream the live feed since most people here work remotely and they have clamped down on streaming to conserve bandwidth.

It seems there are only 7 republicans pandering to the Trump-mob in the hopes of gaining votes for the next election-cycle, so at this point they only delay the inevitable while looking like assholes to a sane person.

The reactions outside of the USA speaks volumes, the images from Capitol Hill and the mob forcing their way in have most people comparing the USA to some failed banana republic.

What's worse, the USA has lost ALL credibility at this point, and China is happily rubbing it in everywhere it can. It will take decades for the USA mitigate the damage it has done to it's international reputation. It's something Biden won't be able to fix during his presidential period for the simple reason no-one will trust the USA until it is shown that people like Trump won't be elected again in the future.[/quote]

Actually the 7 you are referring to are senators. When the House voted, it was 133 in support of Trump.

Yes, I agree with the rest of your post. After Jan. 20, the grown ups will be back in charge and the process of reconciliation and repair can begin. It appears that the Republican Party might split, a process that could keep them from the levers of power for a long time.

Personally, while I agree with you about the international side, I am far more concerned with us not getting another Trump than you are. We definitely don't need another dictator on the make...

The deed is done. Joe Biden is now the president elect officially until his inauguration at witch time his term begins. It is 3 am and the party is over. I am going to bed.

Don

-[/quote]

Don,
While I agree that the grown ups will soon be back in charge, the enablers are still in position to obstruct.

The children should be sent to time out or spanked but there is a history of lack of will to see justice done.
As the contrast in response between the BLM protestors and these insurrectionist made clear to anyone who is capable to accept "objective truth"

I hope I am wrong but, fear that failure to take this opportunity to really re-balance our government and clean up our justice system, we never will.
There is strong evidence that the oligarchs have take over.

What Trump called the "deep state" others call a "shadow government"

They are not elected or accountable and see their tools as canon fodder to be discarded if they become a liability.

But their supporters have a "I might win the lottery" mentality.

The next four years, the next decade will be pivotal... either we turn back from the decline of our government or we start seeing arm bands

Stay Safe
Avoid the Mobs[/quote]

Avoid the mobs??? Heck, I barely make it out of my lazy boy! :lol:

Seriously, what we really need right now is accountability, not just for the insurrection, but also for the law breaking of the Trump era generally.

As for the justice system, unless you are seeing something I'm missing, that is mostly a matter of cleaning out Trump appointees at the top and getting new, people in. Hopefully good solid prosecutors in the regional offices. Then tell them to do their jobs. Finally no executive branch interference.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by C. O. Thompson   » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:00 pm

C. O. Thompson
Captain of the List

Posts: 686
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 1:32 pm
Location: Thompson, CT USA

[/quote]

Stay Safe
Avoid the Mobs[/quote]

Avoid the mobs??? Heck, I barely make it out of my lazy boy! :lol:

Seriously, what we really need right now is accountability, not just for the insurrection, but also for the law breaking of the Trump era generally.

As for the justice system, unless you are seeing something I'm missing, that is mostly a matter of cleaning out Trump appointees at the top and getting new, people in. Hopefully good solid prosecutors in the regional offices. Then tell them to do their jobs. Finally no executive branch interference.

Don

-[/quote]

I have been reviewing the constitution and see a real easy fix.
There is nothing in there that says we can not mandate that the POTUS nominate Qualified Candidates for any position in his cabinet or the so that, the Judiciary Committee would be responsible to maintain a list of Qualified Candidates to fill ANY position in the Federal Justice and Law Enforcement.
Men and women who have been nominated by all states with at least two and no top limit of nominees per state but they must be in good standing with the bar association and pass criminal background and security screening and they must also indicate a willingness to serve a 15 year term.
When a position become open, the committee conducts a supervised lottery and forwards a list to the president.

There will be a number of candidates who are proven professionals with high ethics on all points of the political spectrum so the president should be able to find someone who shares their views on issues deemed important BUT the chances of a bail bonds man getting appointed to the US AG (as happened with Nixon) who had his position on the presidential election team as the reason he was nominated... will be reduced to zero.

This can and should be done for every cabinet position.
Their job is to ADVISE THE PRESIDENT not to rubber stamp or yes sir anything he says.

I don't know the answer... I am still looking for the question
Just my 2 ₡ worth
Top
Re: The end of American democracy?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:42 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5832
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

C. O. Thompson wrote:


Stay Safe
Avoid the Mobs[/quote]

Avoid the mobs??? Heck, I barely make it out of my lazy boy! :lol:

Seriously, what we really need right now is accountability, not just for the insurrection, but also for the law breaking of the Trump era generally.

As for the justice system, unless you are seeing something I'm missing, that is mostly a matter of cleaning out Trump appointees at the top and getting new, people in. Hopefully good solid prosecutors in the regional offices. Then tell them to do their jobs. Finally no executive branch interference.

Don

-[/quote]

I have been reviewing the constitution and see a real easy fix.
There is nothing in there that says we can not mandate that the POTUS nominate Qualified Candidates for any position in his cabinet or the so that, the Judiciary Committee would be responsible to maintain a list of Qualified Candidates to fill ANY position in the Federal Justice and Law Enforcement.
Men and women who have been nominated by all states with at least two and no top limit of nominees per state but they must be in good standing with the bar association and pass criminal background and security screening and they must also indicate a willingness to serve a 15 year term.
When a position become open, the committee conducts a supervised lottery and forwards a list to the president.

There will be a number of candidates who are proven professionals with high ethics on all points of the political spectrum so the president should be able to find someone who shares their views on issues deemed important BUT the chances of a bail bonds man getting appointed to the US AG (as happened with Nixon) who had his position on the presidential election team as the reason he was nominated... will be reduced to zero.

This can and should be done for every cabinet position.
Their job is to ADVISE THE PRESIDENT not to rubber stamp or yes sir anything he says.

I don't know the answer... I am still looking for the question[/quote]

Well said. The difficulty is in how the process has been so heavily politicised and in some cases weaponized. Case in point: how the Merrick Garland nomination to the supreme court was handled by McConnell... There was no reason for Garland not to be on the court except for partisan politics.

Your idea only works if the Senate can be counted on to act responsibly. Right now, I think that Biden will get his picks through which should be ok since Joe and company did some honest vetting...probably with a fine tooth comb, given current circumstances. But that might not be true if the Senate remained in Republican hands.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top

Return to Politics