Election 2020

Arol wrote:A hypothesis:

Biden reaches the 270 and declared a winner.
The B.O.M.’s legal team launches action.
Here’s the question, at what level? State, Federal or direct to the SCUSA?
Not only that, what will the grounds be?
Simply because the B.O.M. “knows…feels…is sure…” that there has been fraud happening, is hearsay sufficient, without proof?

The 2000 election was taken from the State supreme court to the Federal Supreme Court to stop a recount going on in Flordia. It was a different set of issues arguing procedure rather than suspected fraud.

I would think that in order to establish fraud, evidence of such would need to be presented. But if you are hearing hesitancy on my part, it is because I am unsure that the courts won't step in and play a partisan role.

Don

-

The really depressing feature of this(and just about every FPTP election anywhere) is how little has actually changed. I'm not referring to the Presidency, but Congress.

With 95 of 100(edit: 30 of 35) seats declared in the Senate, neither party has lost a seat yet. In the House, with 387 seats declared so far only three(?) have changed hands.

As for the Presidency, I think it suits Trump to continue his "permanent campaign" all the way to 2024. After winning a second term, he would have to amend the constitution(!) or back one of his kids.

If there's one thing that this election has shown very clearly it's that the US needs a better election system.

Presidential elections, it seems, always hinge on a ridiculously small number of voters: Elections in which millions of votes are cast being decided by just a few thousands.
At the time of me writing this post, Biden only needs one more state (that isn't Alaska) to swing to him in order to secure a win (pending the inevitable nuisance lawsuits, of course): In Nebraska, with 75% of the vote counted, Biden's ahead by 8000 votes with over a million cast. In Pennsylvania, with 11% of the votes still left to be counted, Trump is ahead by only 160000 votes out of over 6 million. Georgia, 2% left to be counted, about 5 million votes counted so far, Trump leading by ~19000. North Carolina, 6% left, 5.3 million votes, Trump ahead by ~80000.

Any one of these groups, out of a total voter pool of over a hundred million votes, will end up determining the outcome of this election.
You guys have this electoral college system, ostensibly to avoid a "tyranny of the majority", but it seems to me that it has swung quite drastically into the other direction: Right now, it all looks very much like a "tyranny of the minority" instead....

The E wrote:If there's one thing that this election has shown very clearly it's that the US needs a better election system.

Presidential elections, it seems, always hinge on a ridiculously small number of voters: Elections in which millions of votes are cast being decided by just a few thousands.
At the time of me writing this post, Biden only needs one more state (that isn't Alaska) to swing to him in order to secure a win (pending the inevitable nuisance lawsuits, of course): In Nebraska, with 75% of the vote counted, Biden's ahead by 8000 votes with over a million cast. In Pennsylvania, with 11% of the votes still left to be counted, Trump is ahead by only 160000 votes out of over 6 million. Georgia, 2% left to be counted, about 5 million votes counted so far, Trump leading by ~19000. North Carolina, 6% left, 5.3 million votes, Trump ahead by ~80000.

Any one of these groups, out of a total voter pool of over a hundred million votes, will end up determining the outcome of this election.
You guys have this electoral college system, ostensibly to avoid a "tyranny of the majority", but it seems to me that it has swung quite drastically into the other direction: Right now, it all looks very much like a "tyranny of the minority" instead....

I couldn't more heartily with you about the electoral college... That thing was designed by a bunch of aristocratic males whose intent was was to protect themselves from the "mob."

Otherwise, the election itself is run by the states with such a crazy patchwork of rules that makes it impossible to rig.... Actually, it seems to have worked pretty well this time in terms of casting and counting of ballots. It's creaky and slow, but working. Improvement would deal with mail in ballots. Due to covid, there were huge numbers of those things this time, overwhelming a system not designed for the kind of volumne those mail ins are producing.

As for the math you are relating, It's not quite what I am seeing. But I will certainly agree that the networks are more efficient in reporting the numbers than the counters are in counting...

Don

-

n7axw wrote:

The E wrote:If there's one thing that this election has shown very clearly it's that the US needs a better election system.

Presidential elections, it seems, always hinge on a ridiculously small number of voters: Elections in which millions of votes are cast being decided by just a few thousands.
At the time of me writing this post, Biden only needs one more state (that isn't Alaska) to swing to him in order to secure a win (pending the inevitable nuisance lawsuits, of course): In Nebraska, with 75% of the vote counted, Biden's ahead by 8000 votes with over a million cast. In Pennsylvania, with 11% of the votes still left to be counted, Trump is ahead by only 160000 votes out of over 6 million. Georgia, 2% left to be counted, about 5 million votes counted so far, Trump leading by ~19000. North Carolina, 6% left, 5.3 million votes, Trump ahead by ~80000.

Any one of these groups, out of a total voter pool of over a hundred million votes, will end up determining the outcome of this election.
You guys have this electoral college system, ostensibly to avoid a "tyranny of the majority", but it seems to me that it has swung quite drastically into the other direction: Right now, it all looks very much like a "tyranny of the minority" instead....

I couldn't more heartily with you about the electoral college... That thing was designed by a bunch of aristocratic males whose intent was was to protect themselves from the "mob."

Otherwise, the election itself is run by the states with such a crazy patchwork of rules that makes it impossible to rig.... Actually, it seems to have worked pretty well this time in terms of casting and counting of ballots. It's creaky and slow, but working. Improvement would deal with mail in ballots. Due to covid, there were huge numbers of those things this time, overwhelming a system not designed for the kind of volumne those mail ins are producing.

As for the math you are relating, It's not quite what I am seeing. But I will certainly agree that the networks are more efficient in reporting the numbers than the counters are in counting...

Don

-

Talking about changes…
Isn’t it about time you get a third political party?
The CNN Promo ad does bring up some serious perspectives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbJ1ZLBmYBc

Aren't two parties noisy enough?

Don

-

Given that 2 or 3 states voted "no" to preferential voting, aparently it's not time for a third party.

n7axw wrote:Aren't two parties noisy enough?

Don

-

You'd think so, but the problem is with only 2 parties, polarisation is a big risk. Take a good look at this election. Too many voters wouldn't change their votes, even if it were a known Adolf Hitler or Iosef Stalin running for their preferred party.

Heck, it's bad enough in the UK and that nation has - hypothetically - 3 main parties (Labour, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats) plus the Scottish National Party up north.

It's entirely possible that, without a major reform of the US system, the US system could collapse within the next century.

I wonder how long it's going to take all the QAnon nutcase to realize they've been had for the last four years... assuming they ever do...

gcomeau wrote:I wonder how long it's going to take all the QAnon nutcase to realize they've been had for the last four years... assuming they ever do...

They don’t care!
Right or wrong they’ll have their followers!
In a way they are like the National Enquire in that there’s no such thing as a bad story, as long as they can get someone to buy it and run with it.
With Vice-President Biden it was bad enough, now with President Biden they’ll have field-day! Feeding the gullible and insatiable right-wing airheads with one grisly conspiracy theory after another.