Never Trumpers....

A phenomenon with deserves some recognition is the increasingly visible group of folk who identify as "Never Trumpers." This has been going on sinse prior to the nomination of Trump as the Republican Party's candidate to the presidency in 2016. These people are conservative Republicans who are adamantly opposed to Trump. They are loud, prominent, and very well financed. At this moment the are running attack adds against Trump in key battleground states aimed at enlisting their fellow Republicans against Trump. Most of them are furious at the Republican Party for allowing itself to be co-opted by Trump and the extreme right wingers. This could end up impacting the outcome of the election.

Here is a partial list of Never Trumpers

George Conway...A prominent conservative attorney who has been an outstanding critic of Trump. Married to Kellyanne Conway, White House advisor and Trump apologist. A marriage truly made in heaven...

George Will... A conservative intellectual and columnist. Left the Republican Party after Trump's nomination. Has been a steady Trump critic. Especially hard on Pence.

Dave Frum... evicted from Heritage Founation several years before Trump's nomination.currently a columnist and steady Trump critic.

Here is where it really gets interesting, I think.

Rick Wilson... Republican political operative very verbal and angry critic of Donald Trump.

Steve Schmidt... ran McCain's 2008 campaign against Obama.

These last two very eloquently enunciate the values of liberal democracy and articulate how Trump violates them. I have criticized Donald Trump and will do so again. But these guys put me in the shade with their passion and eloquence.

Stuart Stevens... A Republican political operative upset with the Republican Party even more than with Trump. Has a book coming out. I encountered him the first time in David Corn's article in Mother Jones yesterday.

Justin Amash... A severely right wing conservative member of the House who became a "Never Trumper" when he read the Mueller Report. Has sinse left the Republican caucas and serves as an independent.

And last, but not least...

Senator Mitt Romney... A principled fiscal and social conservative. Romney would not qualify as eloquent or exceptionally articulate. But he has political courage and integrity by the ton and has not hesitated to criticize Trump, being the only Republican senator to vote for Trump's removal last February.

Feel free to add to the list and discuss...

Don

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George Conway is the one I'm really curious about.

I always wonder how much of what he and Kelly Anne show us is just them playing to an audience.

Also, just out of curiousity, how did these people vote (assuming they are in the senate or house), and how much did they diverge from the Trump vote?

In other words, in what concrete way (aside from speeches and grandstanding) did they defy the trumpets in the GOP?

The E wrote:Also, just out of curiousity, how did these people vote (assuming they are in the senate or house), and how much did they diverge from the Trump vote?

In other words, in what concrete way (aside from speeches and grandstanding) did they defy the trumpets in the GOP?

Amash and Romney are the only serving members of Congress. Amash' s "Never Trump" stand incurred the wrath of his constituents and he has more or less been drumed out of the party. I don't know if he'll be returned to Congress as an independent this fall or not. Romney voted in favor of removing Trump and does speak out occasionally against Trumps incompetence and corruption.

Both of these men are conservative Republicans and have voted that way. It is their opposition to Trump that stands out.

Don

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The point I'm getting at here is, denouncing Trump is all well and good, but if they're doing that and on the other hand are rubberstamping legislation that came out of the trumpets, they're essentially saying "We don't like Trump, but we sure do support the US' slide into fascism".

The E wrote:The point I'm getting at here is, denouncing Trump is all well and good, but if they're doing that and on the other hand are rubberstamping legislation that came out of the trumpets, they're essentially saying "We don't like Trump, but we sure do support the US' slide into fascism".

They aren't getting legislation like that to rubber stamp. Remember that the House is controlled by Democrats. Any legislation must be passed by both chambers and signed by the president to become law.

The issue right now is the tendency of Trump to act unilaterally, sometimes in authoritarian ways. He should have been removed in February, but the Republicans who control the Senate were too afraid of both Trump and their constituents to do the job. The exception was Romney. Amash, in the House also voted out the articles of impeachment.

Right now everyone is waiting on the election. Haanng on, it is going to be a buumpyy ride!

Don

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n7axw wrote:They aren't getting legislation like that to rubber stamp. Remember that the House is controlled by Democrats. Any legislation must be passed by both chambers and signed by the president to become law.

That's true now, but it wasn't true for the first two years of the Trump admin.

The E wrote:

n7axw wrote:They aren't getting legislation like that to rubber stamp. Remember that the House is controlled by Democrats. Any legislation must be passed by both chambers and signed by the president to become law.

That's true now, but it wasn't true for the first two years of the Trump admin.

Gracious man, you are acting like a right winger... Significant legislation wasn't passed then either because of the fillibuster. Almost everything takes 60 votes in the Senate. There are exceptions for financial stuff that I don't have a handle on which is how the tax bill that was the giveaway for the wealthy got through. But not much else. Republicans didn't even manage to get rid of Obama care which was their signature issue.

Don

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n7axw wrote:

The E wrote:That's true now, but it wasn't true for the first two years of the Trump admin.

Gracious man, you are acting like a right winger... Significant legislation wasn't passed then either because of the fillibuster. Almost everything takes 60 votes in the Senate. There are exceptions for financial stuff that I don't have a handle on which is how the tax bill that was the giveaway for the wealthy got through. But not much else. Republicans didn't even manage to get rid of Obama care which was their signature issue.

Don

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Don't forget court stacking with unqualified Trump loyalists.

Kind of an important detail you're overlooking there. The Senate has been full speed ahead on that Trump's entire term... after 8 entire years of deliberately emptying courts by refusing to allow Obama to appoint judges. Including the outright theft of a Supreme Court seat.

n7axw wrote:Gracious man, you are acting like a right winger... Significant legislation wasn't passed then either because of the fillibuster. Almost everything takes 60 votes in the Senate. There are exceptions for financial stuff that I don't have a handle on which is how the tax bill that was the giveaway for the wealthy got through. But not much else. Republicans didn't even manage to get rid of Obama care which was their signature issue.

It's a matter of principle for me. Saying that you disavow Trump is easy; especially if you're praised for just doing that and there is little to no scrutiny to what you're actually doing about it. If you're claiming that Trump and his policies are a danger, but do not also start working against Trump's support structure in the GOP, then you're just a smidge hypocritical.

And, well.... standing up to Trump is great. Good job. But that doesn't change the fact that Trump could only exist because these people, in years and decades prior, have created the environment that Trump now exists in. Remember Romney's bullshit about how most americans are just passively taking money from the state and how "only 40% pay income taxes"? A soundbite so openly misleading that it could have come right from Trump's mouth?