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Too Much and Never Enough

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Too Much and Never Enough
Post by n7axw   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:15 am

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This morning I finished Mary Trump's book "Too Much and Never Enough." The theme is "how our family created the most dangerous man in the world."

It's not an easy read. The abuse and neglect that Donald and his siblings endured at the hand of their father, Fred Trump, Sr. was systematic and brutal. It destroyed Donald's older brother, Fred Jr. who eventually became an alcoholic and died by age 38.

Donald as the younger brother took a studied look at the situation and decided that their father was upset at his older brother for being too soft. So Donald took the other tact and became a bully to his siblings, began lying and cheating. His strategy was wildly successful and he supplanted his older brother in his father's favor.

I am not going further into the story line. But Mary Trump is a clinical psychologist who with devastating prose takes the Donald apart and lays him bare. The tone of the book is not vindictive. It is more like a technician disecting a bug in a biology lab. What we end up with is a picture of an emotional cripple without a moral compass, without normal human empathy or, for that matter, any genuine interest in anything other than his own self aggrandizement.

After watching him as president, I arrived at the conclusion that the man couldn't organize a game of marbles on a playground without adult supervision. I often wondered how he managed to stay in business despite five bankruptcies. The answer at first was that it was all daddy. Then when daddy was gone, it was the banks. And finally when the banks got tired of the Donald, he started getting money from overseas...Russia through Deutchebank. But some of this goes beyond the book.

I recommend Mary Trump's book. It is not an edifying read. I found the part about the Trump household while Donald and his siblings were growing up to be utterly depressing. The rest of the book has very little sweetness and light. But if you want to understand where Trump is coming from and why, it is a must read.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:23 am

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n7axw wrote:But if you want to understand where Trump is coming from and why, it is a must read.

... key words - want to understand.

Most of Trump's enemies don't want to understand anything about him. He is not a (broken) complex individual, he is a cardboard cutout for them to vent their rage on. A mirror in which they can only see what they hate the most.

The idea that he was raised to be as he is by someone who failed to live up to the generally accepted standards of Parent means nothing to his enemies. They care not for his history, only that he stands for something that they hate, that he has the power that they crave but cannot achieve.

After all, why waste effort on understanding when you can simply howl?
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by The E   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:10 am

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Michael Everett wrote:... key words - want to understand.

Most of Trump's enemies don't want to understand anything about him. He is not a (broken) complex individual, he is a cardboard cutout for them to vent their rage on. A mirror in which they can only see what they hate the most.

The idea that he was raised to be as he is by someone who failed to live up to the generally accepted standards of Parent means nothing to his enemies. They care not for his history, only that he stands for something that they hate, that he has the power that they crave but cannot achieve.


Do you come up with these stupid takes yourself, or are you copying someone?

Here's a thing for you to think about: The circumstances of Trump's upbringing do not really matter. We routinely expect people to grow beyond whatever faults their parents had, or to overcome bad behaviours learned in earlier stages of their lives as they mature, we expect a capacity for self-reflection and self-criticism in responsible adults. To excuse Trump's current behaviours by pointing out that he was a product of a broken home is disingenuous and hypocritical; we rightly dismiss that approach when any number of common (and uncommon) criminals raise it.

Knowing his background certainly puts things into perspective, but it doesn't materially alter our assessment of Trump as a fundamentally dishonest, untrustworthy, unreliable person. It doesn't change his predilection for authoritarianism, his incompetence, his criminality; these assessments all arise from actions Trump has taken openly, his speeches and executive orders and policies.

You are correct that we hate Trump for what he stands for: A system that allows a person like him to fail upwards. A system that empowers him and people like him, that does not care for the suffering it will inflict on the little people. A system that produces people who cry about their freedoms being infringed by a suggestion to wear a mask during a pandemic. A system that produces people who believe that fighting against government tyranny is core to their concept of citizenship but who will stand idly by as protesters are kidnapped by federal agents.

But we also hate Trump for what he, personally, stands for: His open attacks on the concept of Truth. His hypocrisy. His stupidity. His proud ignorance. His laziness. His vanity. His unquenchable thirst for validation.

It is, to put it simply, not necessary to understand the precise history of Trump in order to understand Trump. It is not necessary to know that he is a victim of abuse in order to condemn him for being an abuser.

After all, why waste effort on understanding when you can simply howl?


Indeed. Why should you, Michael, waste effort on understanding why Trump is a bad POTUS when you can simply howl about how misunderstood he is?
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by Annachie   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:29 am

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Michael Everett wrote:
n7axw wrote:But if you want to understand where Trump is coming from and why, it is a must read.

... key words - want to understand.

Most of Trump's enemies don't want to understand anything about him. He is not a (broken) complex individual, he is a cardboard cutout for them to vent their rage on. A mirror in which they can only see what they hate the most.

The idea that he was raised to be as he is by someone who failed to live up to the generally accepted standards of Parent means nothing to his enemies. They care not for his history, only that he stands for something that they hate, that he has the power that they crave but cannot achieve.

After all, why waste effort on understanding when you can simply howl?



Just who the hell do you think is actually buying the book?

Certainly not his supporters.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by isaac_newton   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:56 am

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Michael Everett wrote:
n7axw wrote:But if you want to understand where Trump is coming from and why, it is a must read.

... key words - want to understand.

Most of Trump's enemies don't want to understand anything about him. He is not a (broken) complex individual, he is a cardboard cutout for them to vent their rage on. A mirror in which they can only see what they hate the most.

The idea that he was raised to be as he is by someone who failed to live up to the generally accepted standards of Parent means nothing to his enemies. They care not for his history, only that he stands for something that they hate, that he has the power that they crave but cannot achieve.

After all, why waste effort on understanding when you can simply howl?


we don't let someone who is totally blind & deaf drive a tank down the motorway at rush hour, however he came to be in that sad situation.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:27 am

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TDS. Trump Derangement Syndrome is how conservatives dismiss criticism of their hero.
Unlike The E, I don't think that I actually hate Trump. That emotion is reserved for those who have actually directly hurt or attacked me. Not many, of them and I didn't get mad then, just got even.
The emotion I have is despise. I have always despised blustering bullies, liars, narcissists, and those with really bad manners in general.
I accept that he became what he is in part from his upbringing, but that doesn't change that in his 70s with great wealth he hasn't even tried to reform. Many in his youthful situation have tried to stand between their parent and their siblings. Not Donald, he saw an advantage at their expense. Character flaw right there even at a young age.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by The E   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:52 am

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Daryl wrote:Unlike The E, I don't think that I actually hate Trump. That emotion is reserved for those who have actually directly hurt or attacked me. Not many, of them and I didn't get mad then, just got even.


I have never (knowingly) met a nazi or white supremacist either; I have never been personally attacked or hurt by one.

I still hate people following that loser ideology and all its various branches. They chose to declare themselves enemies of society: As someone with an interest in society's continued existence, I cannot but stand against them.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by n7axw   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:40 am

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Not wanting to understand is the wrong tack. It leaves us intellectually incurious... like Donald Trump.

Hatred is a very dangerous thing, especially to the hater. It is possible to stand against everything Donald Trump stands for, to be angry at the way he victimizes others without hatred, for the core of that to, paradoxically enough, be love. Nancy Pelosi says she prays for both Trump and his victims. Me too. I pray that his eyes might at long last be opened and until that happens his victims might be sheltered against him.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by The E   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:01 am

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n7axw wrote:Not wanting to understand is the wrong tack. It leaves us intellectually incurious... like Donald Trump.


Don't get me wrong: It is always better to seek understanding than to be ignorant.
However, there is a limit to that: I do not need to understand the mechanics of stellar fusion to perceive daylight. Similarly, I do not need to understand Donald Trump's relationship with his father in detail to be critical of Trump's incessant need for approval and praise. I do not need to understand his relationship to his siblings to be critical of his compulsive lying.

The things I criticize and, yes, hate Trump for can maybe be explained in part by his upbringing. But they cannot be excused by it; His behaviour in isolation is odious enough (And again: Trump is only the tip of a pretty nasty iceberg here. The mechanisms that propelled him to where he is are just as much deserving of hate and criticism than the person Trump is).

Way I see it, Trump's personal history is certainly interesting. But when it comes to dealing with his day-to-day actions, that history is largely irrelevant; after all, if you're suffering under the fallout of Trump's mismanagement of the COVID situation, knowing that Trump grew up with profoundly unlikable parents doesn't really change anything regarding his refusal to take the right actions to fulfill his oath of office.

Hatred is a very dangerous thing, especially to the hater. It is possible to stand against everything Donald Trump stands for, to be angry at the way he victimizes others without hatred, for the core of that to, paradoxically enough, be love. Nancy Pelosi says she prays for both Trump and his victims. Me too. I pray that his eyes might at long last be opened and until that happens his victims might be sheltered against him.


One of my fundamental experiences growing up was a brutally sunny day, several decades ago, where my Father took me to visit the Konzentrationslager Dachau. We visited the memorial site, we went through the museum; looked over the utter bleakness and soul-destroying emptiness of that wretched place. My father was an amateur historian of the third Reich; he tried to understand what drove his father to sign up with that regime, to reconcile what he knew of him and what he did before my father was born. I am not as much of a scholar in these matters as he was, but some of it did rub off on me: In particular, the early history of the Nazis and their rise to power. There are so many parallels between what is happening in the US now and what happened in the Weimar Republic back then that I can't help but react viscerally to attempts to excuse it.
I do not see Trump as someone worthy of redemption. He chose his side. He chose it over and over and over again. If he had remained a stupid idiot on TV, none of it would have mattered, but no. He chose to run for President. He chose to run on a platform of hatred and division. He chose, again and again, to be who he is: A knock-off Hitler.
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Re: Too Much and Never Enough
Post by Annachie   » Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:21 am

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For me it became simpler late last year.

He stole from a charity that was raising money to help children with cancer. (And other things)
I have a child with cancer.

2 pretty obvious dots to join.

Oh, btw. So far so good. Officially stable but the test numbers trend to better.

Not that Trump being a self confessed sex offender and me having 6 daughters wasn't already reason enough.
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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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