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Back door around two-term limit?

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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by Annachie   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:18 pm

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Section one of Amendment 22 doesn't aply because a Vice President assumes the office if the sitting President leaves it early, he's not elected to it.

Ah, I hear you say. Being elected VP is the same thing. One, it isn't. Two, Gerald Ford.

It's functionally the same if both the President and Vice President were dead and Obama was the Speaker of the House. (I'm not sure he could be, but it will do for the example)
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by edgeworthy   » Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:47 pm

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Annachie wrote:Section one of Amendment 22 doesn't aply because a Vice President assumes the office if the sitting President leaves it early, he's not elected to it.

Ah, I hear you say. Being elected VP is the same thing. One, it isn't. Two, Gerald Ford.

It's functionally the same if both the President and Vice President were dead and Obama was the Speaker of the House. (I'm not sure he could be, but it will do for the example)

Strictly speaking there is no precedent preventing Obama from becoming Speaker of the House.
Only one President has been elected to the House after his term of office, John Quincy Adams in 1830, so technically yes he could?
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by Michael Everett   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:40 am

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doug941 wrote:Oval Orifice

Autocorrupt or personal view of the American political system?
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by Eyal   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:27 am

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doug941 wrote:
Annachie wrote:smr, you haven't actually read the US Constitution have you? Well except for the latter half of the 2nd amendment.

The 10 year (minus 1 day) may have been the intent, but it's not how the various articles and amendments are written.


Sorry, but the 22nd is actually quite clear.

"Section 1. No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term."

This means 10 years and out. As for could Barack serve as VP? Yes, but if anything were to happen to the Pres, he is automatically barred from returning to the Oval Orifice and the office would fall to the Speaker of the House.


Section 1 would prevent him from being elected into office. But at least going by the bare text, it would not prevent him from being VP and then serving out the remainder of a vacating President's term.
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by smr   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:35 am

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Annachie sometimes you can be an idiot and this is one of those times. Cheers mate!

The Vice President must be to serve 1 entire term as President. In this instance, Barrack can not serve as VP because he does not meet the requirements. However, George Bush if he were alive would b eligible to serve as VP because he only served 1 term as President and he still has 6 more years of eligibility as President. An individual may mot serve more than 10 years as President.

Annachie wrote:Section one of Amendment 22 doesn't aply because a Vice President assumes the office if the sitting President leaves it early, he's not elected to it.

Ah, I hear you say. Being elected VP is the same thing. One, it isn't. Two, Gerald Ford.

It's functionally the same if both the President and Vice President were dead and Obama was the Speaker of the House. (I'm not sure he could be, but it will do for the example)
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by doug941   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:50 am

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Michael Everett wrote:
doug941 wrote:Oval Orifice

Autocorrupt or personal view of the American political system?

Very much a NON-Freudian NON-slip. I am distantly to very distantly related to a number of former Presidents and wouldn't want to have met any of them.

Winston Churchill was correct in his quote:
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

The sad part is there really isn't a better form of governance outside of fiction. The novel "The Unbeheaded King" makes me sigh at times.
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by Annachie   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 5:11 am

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I'm taking it from that little spiel that not only have you not read it, that you have no intention too.

The exact text has been quoted to you and you can still do nothing by spout propaganda.

You may be right, BUT YOU NEED TO PROVIDE SOME JUSTIFICATION. Some small bit of reasoning that is based on the US Constitution. Or, in a pinch, the writings of those who drafted the two amendments, or voted on them.

I say two, but really any aplicable clause, amendment, or law. Though laws can be changed so are of lesser relevence in this discussiin.
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by n7axw   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:41 am

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Annachie wrote:I'm taking it from that little spiel that not only have you not read it, that you have no intention too.

The exact text has been quoted to you and you can still do nothing by spout propaganda.

You may be right, BUT YOU NEED TO PROVIDE SOME JUSTIFICATION. Some small bit of reasoning that is based on the US Constitution. Or, in a pinch, the writings of those who drafted the two amendments, or voted on them.

I say two, but really any aplicable clause, amendment, or law. Though laws can be changed so are of lesser relevence in this discussiin.


I don't think you can reduce this to the bare text. Being elected to two terms and serving two terms in this context mean the same thing, the exception being for a vice-president who serves less than two years of his predecessor's term. In short, Obama is not eligible to serve under any of the circumstances that currently apply. The intent of the amendment is quite clear which the courts would follow.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by doug941   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:17 pm

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Annachie wrote:I'm taking it from that little spiel that not only have you not read it, that you have no intention too.

The exact text has been quoted to you and you can still do nothing by spout propaganda.

You may be right, BUT YOU NEED TO PROVIDE SOME JUSTIFICATION. Some small bit of reasoning that is based on the US Constitution. Or, in a pinch, the writings of those who drafted the two amendments, or voted on them.

I say two, but really any aplicable clause, amendment, or law. Though laws can be changed so are of lesser relevence in this discussiin.


Not to quibble, but when you say "the writings of those who drafted the two amendments" you should probably know that before the 22nd was ratified, there were some 200 attempts to term limit the President by Constitutional Amendments. If fact, it is interesting reading seeing the discussions in the Constitutional Convention of just what the President's powers and limitations were to have been. At one time, the talk was of an Executive selected by Congress with a lifetime term. THAT would have short-circuited the 22nd!
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Re: Back door around two-term limit?
Post by doug941   » Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:20 pm

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doug941 wrote:Oval Orifice


Very much a NON-Freudian NON-slip. I am distantly to very distantly related to a number of former Presidents and wouldn't want to have met any of them.

Winston Churchill was correct in his quote:
"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

The sad part is there really isn't a better form of governance outside of fiction. The novel "The Unbeheaded King" makes me sigh at times.[/quote]

I really should edit my "Not want" statement. Washington and Madison are two I would have liked to meet. It's the ones after that I have issues with, even Grant. Meet the general but not the President.
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