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Iowa caucus

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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by Eyal   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:17 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:Presume that Hunter Biden is innocent and it was the prosecutor that Joe Biden got fired who was corrupt. A new investigation would confirm that.


There was a new investigation by the new prosecutor. Who also proceeded to drop it.

Add to that the fact that the events being investigated happened years before Hunter Biden even joined Burisma, and it's clear that the push for a new investigation is a smear tactic. This is exactly the same strategy the GOP pursued with Benghazi.

And BTW, if you think there's no problem with repeated investigations as they'll prove his innocence, what's the problem with repeated House investigations of Trump?
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by gcomeau   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:00 am

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Dilandu wrote:
Annachie wrote:
Russia did hack the US election, to what level of success we don't know. It's not a conspiricy theory, but a fact acknowledged by just about every body that tracks those sorts of things.


And what exactly we done?



Cyberattacks on both the GOP and Democratic parties, followed by selective release of information in a manner designed to specifically hurt one candidate and help another (it remains an open question to this day.... what did Russia hack from the Republicans and what use did it put the possession of that data to?), coordinated online fraudulent voter mobilization efforts by Russian operatives posing as US citizens in favor of one candidate, coordinated disinformation campaigns and dissemination of fraudulent news stories designed to help one candidate and harm the other, intrusions or attempted intrusions into voter databases and information systems in at least 39 different states, inserting an operative into the NRA for the express purpose of using it as a conduit to manipulating US policy....

...exactly.
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:17 pm

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gcomeau wrote:

Cyberattacks on both the GOP and Democratic parties, followed by selective release of information in a manner designed to specifically hurt one candidate and help another (it remains an open question to this day.... what did Russia hack from the Republicans and what use did it put the possession of that data to?), coordinated online fraudulent voter mobilization efforts by Russian operatives posing as US citizens in favor of one candidate, coordinated disinformation campaigns and dissemination of fraudulent news stories designed to help one candidate and harm the other, intrusions or attempted intrusions into voter databases and information systems in at least 39 different states, inserting an operative into the NRA for the express purpose of using it as a conduit to manipulating US policy....

...exactly.


...In other words, we done nothing exceptional. Attempts to influence voting are as old as democracy itself. USA used all those tricks numerous times on others; it is pretty naive to think that the same tricks could not be used against USA.

The only difference is that the losers decided to make a fuss out of this, trying to present themselves not as a fools, but as a victims. Apparently, though, the majority of Americans did not buy it; the universal opinion seems to be that if Hillary did not hide her dirty secrets good enough, it is at very least demonstrated her incompetence. Also, her inability to find allies.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:06 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:

Cyberattacks on both the GOP and Democratic parties, followed by selective release of information in a manner designed to specifically hurt one candidate and help another (it remains an open question to this day.... what did Russia hack from the Republicans and what use did it put the possession of that data to?), coordinated online fraudulent voter mobilization efforts by Russian operatives posing as US citizens in favor of one candidate, coordinated disinformation campaigns and dissemination of fraudulent news stories designed to help one candidate and harm the other, intrusions or attempted intrusions into voter databases and information systems in at least 39 different states, inserting an operative into the NRA for the express purpose of using it as a conduit to manipulating US policy....

...exactly.


...In other words, we done nothing exceptional. Attempts to influence voting are as old as democracy itself. USA used all those tricks numerous times on others; it is pretty naive to think that the same tricks could not be used against USA.

The only difference is that the losers decided to make a fuss out of this, trying to present themselves not as a fools, but as a victims. Apparently, though, the majority of Americans did not buy it; the universal opinion seems to be that if Hillary did not hide her dirty secrets good enough, it is at very least demonstrated her incompetence. Also, her inability to find allies.


I have seen no evidence that Russia hacked the voting computers to change the results of the election. However; it is a Chicago tradition that every four years, thousands of dead people will rise up out of their graves to vote for the Democrat, Presidential candidate. There is also the issue with all of those "pregnant Chads" down in Florida back in 2000. I can honestly attest that I wasn't inseminating the ballots.
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by n7axw   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:44 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
I can honestly attest that I wasn't inseminating the ballots.


Whew! Am I ever glad to hear that!!! :lol:

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by n7axw   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:18 pm

n7axw
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Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:

Cyberattacks on both the GOP and Democratic parties, followed by selective release of information in a manner designed to specifically hurt one candidate and help another (it remains an open question to this day.... what did Russia hack from the Republicans and what use did it put the possession of that data to?), coordinated online fraudulent voter mobilization efforts by Russian operatives posing as US citizens in favor of one candidate, coordinated disinformation campaigns and dissemination of fraudulent news stories designed to help one candidate and harm the other, intrusions or attempted intrusions into voter databases and information systems in at least 39 different states, inserting an operative into the NRA for the express purpose of using it as a conduit to manipulating US policy....

...exactly.


...In other words, we done nothing exceptional. Attempts to influence voting are as old as democracy itself. USA used all those tricks numerous times on others; it is pretty naive to think that the same tricks could not be used against USA.

The only difference is that the losers decided to make a fuss out of this, trying to present themselves not as a fools, but as a victims. Apparently, though, the majority of Americans did not buy it; the universal opinion seems to be that if Hillary did not hide her dirty secrets good enough, it is at very least demonstrated her incompetence. Also, her inability to find allies.


Dilandu, with your signature line, look at the word "length." Could I con you into moving that t at the end of the word over one space so it's between the g and the h? I don't normally worry about typos, but this is your signature line. It bangs me in the eye every time you post.

Yeah we have messed up on interfering with other people's elections. In fact we canceled an election in Viet Nam once because Eisenhower was afraid the Communists would win.

But that being said, the principle of free and fair elections that include all the enfranchised citizens of a country according to the rule of law remains and should not be violated by anyone...including us. That being said, at least for Americans, it becomes more serious when one of the candidates cooperates with or at least welcomes the interference of a foreign state actor.

If we as Americans value our franchise and wish to maintain our country in its present form, admitting that we are not lily white must not stop us from doing what we can to defend and preserve the integrity of our elections from all bad actors, both domestic and foreign.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:28 pm

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n7axw wrote:Dilandu, with your signature line, look at the word "length." Could I con you into moving that t at the end of the word over one space so it's between the g and the h? I don't normally worry about typos, but this is your signature line. It bangs me in the eye every time you post.


Oh, sorry. English typos still didn't "light up" for me. Thank you for a catch.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by Dilandu   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:34 pm

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n7axw wrote:But that being said, the principle of free and fair elections that include all the enfranchised citizens of a country according to the rule of law remains and should not be violated by anyone...including us. That being said, at least for Americans, it becomes more serious when one of the candidates cooperates with or at least welcomes the interference of a foreign state actor.
-


In other words, the world's greatest con man went hysterical about being cheated by his own trick)

n7axw wrote:If we as Americans value our franchise and wish to maintain our country in its present form, admitting that we are not lily white must not stop us from doing what we can to defend and preserve the integrity of our elections from all bad actors, both domestic and foreign.


Of course. But currently the "integrity of election" is being used only as a card in the internal struggle. I strongly suspect, that if Russia interfered on Democrat side, they would not even flinch about "integrity". No side of US politics seems to be really interested in it.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Iowa caucus
Post by n7axw   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:15 pm

n7axw
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Posts: 5510
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Dilandu wrote:
n7axw wrote:But that being said, the principle of free and fair elections that include all the enfranchised citizens of a country according to the rule of law remains and should not be violated by anyone...including us. That being said, at least for Americans, it becomes more serious when one of the candidates cooperates with or at least welcomes the interference of a foreign state actor.
-


In other words, the world's greatest con man went hysterical about being cheated by his own trick)

n7axw wrote:If we as Americans value our franchise and wish to maintain our country in its present form, admitting that we are not lily white must not stop us from doing what we can to defend and preserve the integrity of our elections from all bad actors, both domestic and foreign.


Of course. But currently the "integrity of election" is being used only as a card in the internal struggle. I strongly suspect, that if Russia interfered on Democrat side, they would not even flinch about "integrity". No side of US politics seems to be really interested in it.
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Iowa caucus
Post by n7axw   » Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:33 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5510
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Dilandu wrote:
n7axw wrote:But that being said, the principle of free and fair elections that include all the enfranchised citizens of a country according to the rule of law remains and should not be violated by anyone...including us. That being said, at least for Americans, it becomes more serious when one of the candidates cooperates with or at least welcomes the interference of a foreign state actor.
-


In other words, the world's greatest con man went hysterical about being cheated by his own trick)

n7axw wrote:If we as Americans value our franchise and wish to maintain our country in its present form, admitting that we are not lily white must not stop us from doing what we can to defend and preserve the integrity of our elections from all bad actors, both domestic and foreign.


Of course. But currently the "integrity of election" is being used only as a card in the internal struggle. I strongly suspect, that if Russia interfered on Democrat side, they would not even flinch about "integrity". No side of US politics seems to be really interested in it.


I, for one, do not wish to see the Republicans cheated out of any election that they have legally and properly won. Not taking that point of view would undermine my own side when the tables are turned. I admit to being biased in favor of Democrats. But it is more important to me to live in a country where all are under the rule of law rather individual persons.

And, truthfully, I think that many of my fellow Democrats would agree with me. For that matter, if we could get untangled from our left-right catfight, most Republicans would agree as well. But in the meantime, somebody as to blow the whistle and yell "STOP!" when concrete situations of wrongdoing come up.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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