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Australia Wildfires

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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:36 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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The E wrote:Daryl: Uses historical evidence to show that the australian climate definitely has changed towards being drier and hotter

TFLY: Well, you could've avoided this if you hadn't built so many dams



How about citing the climate record for the last 1,000 years?

http://joannenova.com.au/2014/12/austra ... ore-study/
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Daryl   » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:09 pm

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Australia was first settled permanently by Europeans in 1788, so organised record keeping started from then. Aboriginal people came here between 40k to 60k years ago. Their 200 tribes relied on oral traditions.
Aboriginal tribes used fire for hunting. Both to encourage fresh growth to attract game, and to herd wildlife towards an ambush. This tended to reduce the fire load, but it wasn't some national and planned strategy.
There is significant data available from sources like core samples from coral, growth rings on trees, mineral deposition, and much more. The consensus is that Australia has always tended to be hot and dry, with both droughts and floods. However the trend has been to be more extreme in recent times.
In living memory, my granddad lived through the 1902 (Federation) drought, and I was a teen ager on a station (ranch) during the 1965 drought, which granddad said was worse than the 1902 one. There is no doubt that the current drought is worse than both. This from both actual records and personal experience.

I may be wrong, but my impression is that the only significant remaining groups of climate change deniers are found in Australian bogans (trailer trash), and US deplorables. Criticism starts with a rant against those "university educated intellectual elites", and it sounds like this attitude started in primary school, with jealousy about the teacher's pets who sat up front, and went on to good jobs.


TFLYTSNBN wrote:
The E wrote:Daryl: Uses historical evidence to show that the australian climate definitely has changed towards being drier and hotter

TFLY: Well, you could've avoided this if you hadn't built so many dams



How about citing the climate record for the last 1,000 years?

http://joannenova.com.au/2014/12/austra ... ore-study/
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Annachie   » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:10 pm

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Daryl wrote:Australia was first settled permanently by Europeans in 1788, so organised record keeping started from then. Aboriginal people came here between 40k to 60k years ago.


There's some evidence that could push that back to 120,000 years ago. But then that might be a different people.


I may be wrong, but my impression is that the only significant remaining groups of climate change deniers are found in Australian bogans (trailer trash), and US deplorables.


and those beholden to the coal industry, which unfortunately includes leaders of the ruling LNP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:31 am

TFLYTSNBN
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Annachie wrote:
Daryl wrote:Australia was first settled permanently by Europeans in 1788, so organised record keeping started from then. Aboriginal people came here between 40k to 60k years ago.


There's some evidence that could push that back to 120,000 years ago. But then that might be a different people.


I may be wrong, but my impression is that the only significant remaining groups of climate change deniers are found in Australian bogans (trailer trash), and US deplorables.


and those beholden to the coal industry, which unfortunately includes leaders of the ruling LNP.


Let me understand this. I cite climate data for a millennia to make the point that your drought is not unprecedented. You respond with anecdotal accounts of climate for the last century then degenerate into an ad hominem attack.

If Australians are so convinced that human CO2 emissions are so catastrophic, then Australia should cease producing or buying coal, gas or oil and manufacture their own solar cells in factories powered by solar power rather than importing solar panels from China that are manufactured in factories powered by coal.
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Daryl   » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:00 pm

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Fly, you cherry picked an outlier, whose data isn't accepted and is considered to be tweaked for a particular outcome. One of our papers this week had a large article pointing out how deniers will bypass numerous reports that don't fit their narrative, until they find the one in a hundred that they agree with. I was being polite previously when I didn't refer to it. As I said there is a lot of data from many sources that does confirm that we have a lot of droughts. However it also shows a definite trend, to drier and hotter. On Monday we had the hottest national average temperature day ever, and that record is expected to be broken next week.
As to our CO2 production it can't be an all or nothing decision. We have new foundries and smelters being powered by large scale solar farms, and our coal exports can be justified by pointing out that our coal is suited for HELE power stations, so if we don't export it, the developing nations will burn dirtier stuff.
To do better we need to vote out the current conservative government.
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Daryl   » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:05 pm

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Unfortunately this topic is still live as our fires just keep getting worse in area and intensity.
Last night I saw an indication of the ferocity. A line of burnt out cars, with the front area sitting in a puddle of shiny aluminium. Steel needs about 1400 C to melt, but aluminium only needs 660 C. So the engine blocks have just melted in the street.
Still our PM talks about a "climate crisis", as he would be toast from our Tea Party equivalent, if he says "climate change".
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Annachie   » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:05 pm

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We're getting air quality warnings, and the nearest big fire is 300 odd miles away. But it is up wind.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
still not dead. :)
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:34 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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Daryl wrote:Fly, you cherry picked an outlier, whose data isn't accepted and is considered to be tweaked for a particular outcome. One of our papers this week had a large article pointing out how deniers will bypass numerous reports that don't fit their narrative, until they find the one in a hundred that they agree with. I was being polite previously when I didn't refer to it. As I said there is a lot of data from many sources that does confirm that we have a lot of droughts. However it also shows a definite trend, to drier and hotter. On Monday we had the hottest national average temperature day ever, and that record is expected to be broken next week.
As to our CO2 production it can't be an all or nothing decision. We have new foundries and smelters being powered by large scale solar farms, and our coal exports can be justified by pointing out that our coal is suited for HELE power stations, so if we don't export it, the developing nations will burn dirtier stuff.
To do better we need to vote out the current conservative government.



I didn't cherry pick the data. The warmers do the cherry picking by focusing on recent climate data. Your droughts and your wildfires are horrific but they are not unprecedented.

Eventually; humanity will have to move beyond fossil fuels. The "green energy" technologies can be part of the solution. However; unless you are willing to systematically exterminate billions of people or condemn them to poverty, you need alternative energy sources that can provide multiple Terrawatts reliably.
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by edgeworthy   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:57 pm

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Mordor seen from space ....

https://imgur.com/gallery/9oiePhO

.... no sorry my mistake it's Australia.
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Re: Australia Wildfires
Post by Joat42   » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:23 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I didn't cherry pick the data. The warmers do the cherry picking by focusing on recent climate data. Your droughts and your wildfires are horrific but they are not unprecedented.

Eventually; humanity will have to move beyond fossil fuels. The "green energy" technologies can be part of the solution. However; unless you are willing to systematically exterminate billions of people or condemn them to poverty, you need alternative energy sources that can provide multiple Terrawatts reliably.

97% of climate scientists think humans are responsible for the accelerating climate change, you rather go with the less than 3% that believe otherwise.

And for some reason you think these 97% of scientist are in on some kind of conspiracy that will result in billions of dead and/or reduced to poverty because the scientist are advocating for a change?

You haven't really explained how all these people are going suffer these consequences though? Chopped up by windmills or brained by falling rooftop solar-cells they where forced to pay for??

You arguments isn't that different from the buggy-whip manufacturers when cars became common-place, the last gasp of people who couldn't change their ways.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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