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Impeachment now certain

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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by Joat42   » Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:57 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:
If you calculate the energy content of the fuel loads of the aircraft, it was comparable​ to a tactical nuke. Given slightly different timing, the casualties would have equaled Hiroshima.


As Joat24 already calculated, you are wrong by several orders of magnitude.
smr wrote:I think fly is correct because I saw a special that discussed this very issue. Now, don't shoot the messenger because my memory could be faulty or the numbers could be incorrect from the documentary. This documentary was on the History Channel or History channel 2 when it was in operation and on my cable package.

If we say that the aviation fuel released the same amount of energy as a 15kt nuke a lot of the WTC would have been reduced to a puddle of melted steel and concrete during the fire. It's simple physics and anyone can multiply 120 tons with the kerosene's specific energy content to get the total optimal energy possible, but to get the maximum energy out of burning aviation fuel you need the right amount of oxygen and the fuel/air ratio for that is 0.017, ie 17 units of fuel for 1000 units of air which can never be achieved during a fire.

Note though, the US among others have tactical nukes in the range of 600 tons of TNT, but there is a substantial difference between burning aviation fuel and a nuke going off.

---
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:27 am

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Michael Everett wrote:Just as a heads up, apparently a Democratic Senator has publicly declared that it is time for Impeachment 2: Revenge Of The Losers.

Maturity level seems to be below Trump now.


Actually, another impeachment at this point isn't in the cards. As long as the composition of the Senate is as is, it would be an exercise in futility.

But at the same time, continuing to investigate and keep Trumps actions under scrutiny and exposed to the light of day is very much in order. Trumps next jury will be the voters. As for how that will work out, I have given up on prognostication. We'll just have to wait and see.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 4:45 am

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n7axw wrote:
Michael Everett wrote:Just as a heads up, apparently a Democratic Senator has publicly declared that it is time for Impeachment 2: Revenge Of The Losers.

Maturity level seems to be below Trump now.


Actually, another impeachment at this point isn't in the cards. As long as the composition of the Senate is as is, it would be an exercise in futility.

But at the same time, continuing to investigate and keep Trumps actions under scrutiny and exposed to the light of day is very much in order. Trumps next jury will be the voters. As for how that will work out, I have given up on prognostication. We'll just have to wait and see.

Don

-


Well, currently democrats only managed to boost Trump support and popularity. At this rate, a pair of impeachement attempts more, and voters would unanimously vote for Trump to be a king :D
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by Michael Everett   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:03 am

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Dilandu wrote:Well, currently democrats only managed to boost Trump support and popularity. At this rate, a pair of impeachement attempts more, and voters would unanimously vote for Trump to be a king :D

...technically speaking, you could argue that the US President is a King with a very limited reign, given the number of powers they have and how much they get blamed for things going wrong that they have no control over.

But I understand the point you are trying to make.
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:59 am

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Joat42 wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:The actual estimates of the death toll from Hiroshima by the Japanese was just over 50,000. This included delayed deaths from injuries as well as prompt deaths. During the years since, the "death toll" has been inflated by counting any death for any reason of anyone who might have been at Hiroshima.

The normal occupancy during business hours of the twin towers of the World Trade Center is about 25,000 each. The first plane impacted as people were still arriving for work and impacted an upper story. The second plane impacted much later. Fewer people were present and most of them had time to evacuate.

If you calculate the energy content of the fuel loads of the aircraft, it was comparable​ to a tactical nuke. Given slightly different timing, the casualties would have equaled Hiroshima.

Hiroshima bomb: 6.3x10^10013 joules released almost instantly (15 kt)
Fuel load total WTC attack: ~120 tons, 2.784×10^13 joules released over several hours (energy comparable to 600 tons of TNT)
Difference in total energy release ~3.6 magnitudes.

And regardless of when the attack would have happened, it would not have killed everyone in the towers so there is no possibility at all that the amount of casualties could have equaled Hiroshima.



You got the math correct. I presume that your statement of "3.6 magnitudes" is a language difference as it might imply "order of magnitude" which it isn't.

The bottom line is that the energy content of the fuel was comparable to about 1/4 of a Hiroshima bomb (they continue to recalculate the yield). However; given the fact that all of the energy was released as either a shockwave or heat with no energy partition to nuclear radiation, the planes were about half a Hiroshima. The fuel in both planes was atomized upon impact and burned within a few seconds. The prolonged fires were from the contents of the buildings burning, including people. Given the fact that blast effects scale with the (energy)^(2/3), a more reasonable comparison is that the planes were the equivalent of about 2/3 of a Hiroshima.

Of course timing and impact locations were important. The first plane arrived quite a while before the second plane. Most people below the impact level were able to evacuate as well as people in nearby buildings. If both planes had arrived a bit later and impacted nearly simultaneously hitting as low as the second plane did, both towers would have collapsed before many people could evacuate. People in adjacent buildings would also be killed.

BTW, I have actually been an observer at a nuclear simulation. Just a few kilotons equivalent is astonishing.
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by Dilandu   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:31 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
The bottom line is that the energy content of the fuel was comparable to about 1/4 of a Hiroshima bomb (they continue to recalculate the yield).


You are talking absolute nonsense. 1/4 of a Little Boy type device would be 3,75 kilotons.

There is no physical process how 120 tons of air fuel could release energy at 1:31 ratio. Sort of annihilation, of course, but I doubt that even you would insist that there were positron bombs released against WTC.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by n7axw   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:14 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
Well, currently democrats only managed to boost Trump support and popularity. At this rate, a pair of impeachement attempts more, and voters would unanimously vote for Trump to be a king :D


There was a short spike in the polls in the presidents favor. But it settled back to his norm of 42-44% approval with a strong majority disapproving of the Senate's handing of the trial. In short, no one was convinced one way or the other about the matter.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by Joat42   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 1:33 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:You got the math correct. I presume that your statement of "3.6 magnitudes" is a language difference as it might imply "order of magnitude" which it isn't.

The calculator app I was using didn't say anything about the overflow it encountered while I was calculating the magnitude by entering the exact joules which explains the odd number of 3.6.

I had a brain-fart and totally forget that you can calculate the difference in orders of magnitude by subtracting the exponent, which means the difference is ~10000.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Impeachment now certain
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:05 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:You got the math correct. I presume that your statement of "3.6 magnitudes" is a language difference as it might imply "order of magnitude" which it isn't.

The calculator app I was using didn't say anything about the overflow it encountered while I was calculating the magnitude by entering the exact joules which explains the odd number of 3.6.

I had a brain-fart and totally forget that you can calculate the difference in orders of magnitude by subtracting the exponent, which means the difference is ~10000.


(So in other words.... yes it is orders of magnitude)
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