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Trump just admitted it

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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:43 am

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Joat42 wrote:The reason for the existence of many militaries isn't for defeating an attacker, it's to make an attack too costly or as some put it - it's for defensive reasons.

That means that military aid may tip the balance in such scenario, but it wont work against a determined attacker that's prepared to pay the butchers bill.


With all respect, but Ukrainean army as a "deterrence" against Russian military isn't even a bad joke. Recall their examples of utter military idiocy in 2014 - like when they started to advance along the Russian border, trying to encircle the rebellous regions, but did not bother to took any of high ground. As a result, the Ukrainean forces were stretched along the VERY long and VERY narrow corridor, which have un-friendly Russian board on one side and rebel-controlled heights along the other side. The disaster was imminent: the rebels just cut their supply routes, and then blocked the retreat.

Yes, they become better, but "better" doesn't means "good". Currently, Ukrainean army is a close analogue of Austro-Hungarian in WW1; poorly trained soldiers, drilled generally for trench warfare, and with rather ambigious morale. No ammount of propagnda could change the fact, that their "democratic, modern" government was in fact even more corrupt & less competent than the "bloody tyrant" they chase off in 2014. And neither Poroshenko nor Zelensky have any idea how to stop the war on the east.
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Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:46 am

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P.S. And frankly, I think gcomeau simply do not understood military matters, and sincerely believe that US military aid make Ukrainean army comparable to Russian. In other political theme, he was absolutely unable to understood that old bi-lateral arm limitation treaties between USA and Russia became liabilities now.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Joat42   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:04 am

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Dilandu wrote:P.S. And frankly, I think gcomeau simply do not understood military matters, and sincerely believe that US military aid make Ukrainean army comparable to Russian. In other political theme, he was absolutely unable to understood that old bi-lateral arm limitation treaties between USA and Russia became liabilities now.

It's not just about the equipment and aid, it's also a geo-political gesture.

And the US could just do what Russia is doing, give help to the "poor, beleaguered freedom-fighters" in northern Ukraine so they can defeat the "terrorists" that is supported by Russia.

What they call the fighting parties in northern Ukraine is just for show, the reality is that Russia and the US are fighting a war in Ukraine by proxy.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.


Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:36 am

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Joat42 wrote:What they call the fighting parties in northern Ukraine is just for show, the reality is that Russia and the US are fighting a war in Ukraine by proxy.


True, unfortunately.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:43 am

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Joat42 wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
There is almost no chance there is a recording on the White House side of things. Since Nixon they are really not big on recording their conversations.

Whether one exists on the Ukraine side or in an NSA vault somewhere... who knows...

Uhm, are you saying that they typed up the transcript from Trump's recollection of the call?


They take notes during the call then it is converted into the final "transcript".
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:47 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:I know that you will respond with an ad hominon attack of the sources, but this is a HUGE problem for the Drmocrats:

https://gellerreport.com/2019/09/democr ... ason.html/

Hypicrosy much.


How stupid are you?

Do you seriously not understand the difference between a public call for an investigation into verified criminal activities to be continued, and secretly pressuring a foreign leader to INITIATE an investigation based on a conspiracy theory related to your upcoming election opponent while simultaneously blocking hundreds off millions of dollars of military aid to their country and making the connection between the two implicit in a direct conversation while deploying your personal lawyer and political operative to liaison with that country and direct things instead of any official member of law enforcement?
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:51 am

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Dilandu wrote:Seems like perfectly ordinary politics, frankly. Whats all this fuss about? Democrats realized that with such attitude they would probably lose the 2020s election - seriously, they didn't even have the single candidate yet! - and decide to launch a desperate last charge on Trump?


1. Hijacking US national security policy to extort foreign heads of state into helping your personal election campaign is an illegal abuse of office.

2. Violating federal whistleblower reporting laws is also illegal.

Both of those are bad. But we all get that anyone who thinks Putin is ok may have trouble with that concept.
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Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:49 am

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gcomeau wrote:
How stupid are you?

Do you seriously not understand the difference between a public call for an investigation into verified criminal activities to be continued, and secretly pressuring a foreign leader to INITIATE an investigation based on a conspiracy theory related to your upcoming election opponent while simultaneously blocking hundreds off millions of dollars of military aid to their country and making the connection between the two implicit in a direct conversation while deploying your personal lawyer and political operative to liaison with that country and direct things instead of any official member of law enforcement?


Well, democrats rambled "THIS would be a final nail in Trump crucifiction" for three years, and every time the result was the same: Trump is in place & going, while bored American public asked democrats to stop beating a dead horse. Lets be honest: in anti-Trump campaign, your party did not exactly have a string of shining sucsesses.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by Dilandu   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:54 am

Dilandu
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gcomeau wrote:
1. Hijacking US national security policy


Translating from bureaucratical to human language: Trump dared to use for personal gains the proxy war, ignited by Democrtic administration for their own personal gains.
------------------------------

Oh well, if shortening the front is what the Germans crave,
Let's shorten it to very end - the length of Fuhrer's grave.

(Red Army lyrics from 1945)
Top
Re: Trump just admitted it
Post by gcomeau   » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:49 pm

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Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
1. Hijacking US national security policy


Translating from bureaucratical to human language: Trump dared to use for personal gains the proxy war, ignited by Democrtic administration for their own personal gains.


However you want to try characterizing what happened in Ukraine the "for personal gains" part of your statement MAKES IT A CORRUPT ABUSE OF HIS OFFICE.

How is this a hard thing to understand?
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