Manning the Military, with immigrants?

This article explores a current issue for the US.
The idea of universal conscription with a lottery has merit, but you still have the burden shared unequally.
Universal conscription with shorter terms of service is another approach, but it wastes training resources for minimal deployable force.

https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/c ... s-problem/

So how about the US military accepting volunteers from foreign countries who wish to immigrate to the US and become citizens?

Illegal immigrants need not apply but foreign nationals could seek a visa from their local US consulate specifically to serve in the US military. The sevices would have to evaluate and approve the applicants. Applicants would need to speak english reasonably well. During bootcamp and service, the immigrant troops would receive remedial English plus classes in civics & US History. (There was a time when civics classes were mandatory for citizen children at various age levels to ensure a basic knowledge). Some effort would be made to recruit equal numbers of females as well as males.

The result would be to offer a path to legal residency and citizenship to a significant number but certainly not all illegal immigrants. It also undermines the moral arguments for an open borders policy.

Actually not a bad idea... military service is an excellent "melting pot", which would smooth many cultural &
national differencez.

Many problems that exist in civilian society do tend to get squashed by the military, though they almost all exist in some form or another to various degrees. I worked side by side with blacks, whites, and latinos in the sub-force, but I can tell you that whites are the exceptionally dominant majority. Even with females entering the sub force now they are massively outnumbered.

In the tight knit submarine community we must rely on one another. We also tend to have a higher quality of individuals, people who are smart enough to work together and not give a fig for sex, race, color or creed. This isn't true of other units with far larger unit structures and less rigorous demands on them.

Something else to keep in mind is that many of the places which immigrants are leaving have cultural baggage that is not compatible with the US military. A program to use the military to bring in immigrants is almost certain to exclude females as well. Many, if not most, immigrants come from places where women are not considered equal to men. The cultural baggage I was referring to earlier results in a mindset that will make many men denigrate women who are in charge. And it is this same cultural baggage that will keep women from joining because it is not a woman's role in their culture to do so.

Part of the difficulty with modern immigration into the US is that the immigrants really don't want to become US Americans. They want to escape where they were, certainly. They want a better lifestyle, safety, comfort, etc. But they also want to keep their cultural heritage, including the culture that made them who they are. They do not want to conform to existing US cultural norms, by and large.

Hmmm, yes, let immigrants enlist in the armed services as a route to citizenship. Good idea, that. Certainly has some amount of tradition behind it.


Such a shame that it doesn't really work, though.
Turns out, if you let racists and xenophobes run the government, it does racist and xenophobic things.

John Ringo touched on this with his Troy series. In it an international space force was being created by countries sending already trained troops to participate. From memory some from the South American countries had problems accepting female superiors. I'd imagine that some Middle Eastern countries may also have problems.
Another problem could be corruption. Many years ago I was involved in finding work for Vietnamese refugees, and had to make up a sign saying no gifts allowed, as they couldn't comprehend a government official helping them without some kickback.
I doubt that you would get many takers from the developed world, as they wouldn't see the grass as being greener.

Fireflair wrote:Many problems that exist in civilian society do tend to get squashed by the military, though they almost all exist in some form or another to various degrees. I worked side by side with blacks, whites, and latinos in the sub-force, but I can tell you that whites are the exceptionally dominant majority. Even with females entering the sub force now they are massively outnumbered.

In the tight knit submarine community we must rely on one another. We also tend to have a higher quality of individuals, people who are smart enough to work together and not give a fig for sex, race, color or creed. This isn't true of other units with far larger unit structures and less rigorous demands on them.

Something else to keep in mind is that many of the places which immigrants are leaving have cultural baggage that is not compatible with the US military. A program to use the military to bring in immigrants is almost certain to exclude females as well. Many, if not most, immigrants come from places where women are not considered equal to men. The cultural baggage I was referring to earlier results in a mindset that will make many men denigrate women who are in charge. And it is this same cultural baggage that will keep women from joining because it is not a woman's role in their culture to do so.

Part of the difficulty with modern immigration into the US is that the immigrants really don't want to become US Americans. They want to escape where they were, certainly. They want a better lifestyle, safety, comfort, etc. But they also want to keep their cultural heritage, including the culture that made them who they are. They do not want to conform to existing US cultural norms, by and large.

Daryl wrote:John Ringo touched on this with his Troy series.

He tried to, but his insistence on the american way being the only way got in his way.

The E wrote:
He tried to, but his insistence on the american way being the only way got in his way.

Well... this is Ringo (OH JOHN RINGO NO), after all

Fireflair wrote:Many problems that exist in civilian society do tend to get squashed by the military, though they almost all exist in some form or another to various degrees. I worked side by side with blacks, whites, and latinos in the sub-force, but I can tell you that whites are the exceptionally dominant majority. Even with females entering the sub force now they are massively outnumbered.

In the tight knit submarine community we must rely on one another. We also tend to have a higher quality of individuals, people who are smart enough to work together and not give a fig for sex, race, color or creed. This isn't true of other units with far larger unit structures and less rigorous demands on them.

Something else to keep in mind is that many of the places which immigrants are leaving have cultural baggage that is not compatible with the US military. A program to use the military to bring in immigrants is almost certain to exclude females as well. Many, if not most, immigrants come from places where women are not considered equal to men. The cultural baggage I was referring to earlier results in a mindset that will make many men denigrate women who are in charge. And it is this same cultural baggage that will keep women from joining because it is not a woman's role in their culture to do so.

Part of the difficulty with modern immigration into the US is that the immigrants really don't want to become US Americans. They want to escape where they were, certainly. They want a better lifestyle, safety, comfort, etc. But they also want to keep their cultural heritage, including the culture that made them who they are. They do not want to conform to existing US cultural norms, by and large.

Military service would offer an excellent opportunity to cull out the immigrants who don't want to become Americans.

We have actually been doing just that for decades. Back in the 80's I saw a lot of Filipinos in the US Navy, working for citizenship. Mostly in supply and food service, but a few bosun's mates and engineers, too. And Hull Technicians, whose responsibilities include, among other things, maintaining the ship's water and sewage systems — leading to the common nickname for HT's, Turd-Chasers…
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Erik: “It’s reassuring to find that the world is crazier than you are.”