Trump, Kim & the DMZ

gcomeau wrote:
Thanks for clarifying your position as US foreign policy should be governed by the principle "if they might hurt us in any way then it is necessary to cower to them".

No wonder Trump is your perfect president, he's always been a sniveling coward.


And nice little bonus bit of absurdity trying to compare New Zealand to North Korea to cap it off.

And what else USA could do? I'm afraid, times when USA could strike North Korea freely are history. Not because of North Koran military buildup, of course - but because of China, who would not allow such strike. It would make China look very bad, like they could not establish order in their own sphere of influence. Yes, China did not like nuclear North Korea (here, all superpowers are in agreement), but China also did not like USA working in their are of dominance.

So, the USA could not strike North Korea without risking the war with China. And economical sanctions & political pressure already failed to persuade North Korea to give up their nuclear program. So, what's left for USA? Either they negotiate, or they are out of any more solutions.

Dilandu wrote:

gcomeau wrote:
Thanks for clarifying your position as US foreign policy should be governed by the principle "if they might hurt us in any way then it is necessary to cower to them".

No wonder Trump is your perfect president, he's always been a sniveling coward.


And nice little bonus bit of absurdity trying to compare New Zealand to North Korea to cap it off.

And what else USA could do? I'm afraid, times when USA could strike North Korea freely are history. Not because of North Koran military buildup, of course - but because of China, who would not allow such strike. It would make China look very bad, like they could not establish order in their own sphere of influence. Yes, China did not like nuclear North Korea (here, all superpowers are in agreement), but China also did not like USA working in their are of dominance.

So, the USA could not strike North Korea without risking the war with China. And economical sanctions & political pressure already failed to persuade North Korea to give up their nuclear program. So, what's left for USA? Either they negotiate, or they are out of any more solutions.

Almost in exact agreement with you. The US could have taken out NK in 2002 but SK and Japan would not cooperate. We then had the 5 party talks that didn't do much.

NK sought nukes in part to deter perceived US aggression. Trump talking respectfully while maintaining Sanctions might have result s.

Funny how, back when the US had an actual President, the idea of talking to North Korea, even when just floated as a "We're not ruling it out" hypothetical, got the people TFLY and smr get their opinions on very upset.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/ ... 4744216576

But now, with Trump, everything's obviously different!

After all, does it really count if the President in question is borderline senile?

The E wrote:Funny how, back when the US had an actual President, the idea of talking to North Korea, even when just floated as a "We're not ruling it out" hypothetical, got the people TFLY and smr get their opinions on very upset.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/ ... 4744216576

But now, with Trump, everything's obviously different!

After all, does it really count if the President in question is borderline senile?

Well, thing is, that Trump was the one who took the floating idea and went forward with it, while the "actual presidents" were perfectly fine with letting it float around endlessly)

The E wrote:Funny how, back when the US had an actual President, the idea of talking to North Korea, even when just floated as a "We're not ruling it out" hypothetical, got the people TFLY and smr get their opinions on very upset.

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/ ... 4744216576

But now, with Trump, everything's obviously different!

After all, does it really count if the President in question is borderline senile?

The big difference is that Trump is negotiating while maximizing sanctions while Obama was willing to give them everything. Remember those pallets of cash that were airlifted to Iran?

Trump is also tempting NK with economic integration with SK and may be Japan to lure them away from China rather than allow them to be a Chinese vassal.

NK negotiations are also in context of putting the screws to China economically.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

Dilandu wrote:And what else USA could do? I'm afraid, times when USA could strike North Korea freely are history. Not because of North Koran military buildup, of course - but because of China, who would not allow such strike. It would make China look very bad, like they could not establish order in their own sphere of influence. Yes, China did not like nuclear North Korea (here, all superpowers are in agreement), but China also did not like USA working in their are of dominance.

So, the USA could not strike North Korea without risking the war with China. And economical sanctions & political pressure already failed to persuade North Korea to give up their nuclear program. So, what's left for USA? Either they negotiate, or they are out of any more solutions.

Almost in exact agreement with you.

Anyone else find it amusing that Mr. "Why are you FOREIGNERS commenting on US policy???" finds common cause with exactly one foreign contributor here on Trump, and it's the guy from *Russia* posting about how Trump is doing what he wants him to do after we just spent the last few years on the investigation into Russia interfering in the election to get Trump elected so he would do stuff the Russians wanted him to do?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:The big difference is that Trump is negotiating while maximizing sanctions while Obama was willing to give them everything. Remember those pallets of cash that were airlifted to Iran?

Remember how all Iran got was IT'S OWN ASSETS UNFROZEN in return for a freeze on nuclear weapons development that WAS WORKING before President Moron came along and did his best to blow it all up just because he couldn't stand anything Obama did being left standing... and alienated most of America's allies in the process?

Then completely failed to negotiate any better deal and now we have completely avoidable threats of a war with Iran flying back and forth? A war you can be damn sure most of the countries the US usually relies on for support in these operations are going to tell Trump to go fuck himself on (in more diplomatic language I'm sure)?

gcomeau wrote: so he would do stuff the Russians wanted him to do?

In therms of North Korea nuclear weapon, you know, Russia, China and USA have a pretty good agreement: neither one wanted it. Our nations may argue about methods, but we have a common agreement that nuclear North Korea is most definitely not what any of us wanted.

Trump currently represented the best chance to actually move situation somewhere from the lockdown limbo in which it lingered for years. He may not be the brightest bulb around, but he understood one thing right: the US is not the absolute power that it was ten years ago.

gcomeau wrote:A war you can be damn sure most of the countries the US usually relies on for support in these operations are going to tell Trump to go fuck himself on (in more diplomatic language I'm sure)?

(Shrug) Israel would be completely for it, because they didn't like the idea of nuclear Iran. Saudi Arabia and UAE would also support those actions (it's highly likely that it was them who staged the recent tanker attacks). And Turkey would probably wait & calculate what is more profitable anyway.

Who else matters? Pakistain would not support, but also would not interfere. Iraq, Syria and other countries that might threw their weight behind Iran in past are in no shape to do it now.

Dilandu wrote:He may not be the brightest bulb around, but he understood one thing right: the US is not the absolute power that it was ten years ago.

What single statement, action, or expression Trump had EVER made/taken was consistent with those bolded words????

He's not rolling over for Kim because of some nuanced calculation about the balance of global power.

1. It got him attention doing something he could claim nobody else had done (while ignoring WHY nobody else did it). There is NOTHING Trump likes more than an opportunity to claim he is the first/best at anything. *Anything*.

2. Kim flattered him and stroked his ego and he liked it because in his worldview dictators who rule countries with iron fists are "strong" so their positive opinion of him is good and to be sought out.

That is the extent of the sophistication of Trump's position on this issue.

Dilandu wrote:
Who else matters?

Ummm... the bulk of NATO?

(I know Russia wants US relations with NATO undermined, another thing Trump is delivering on for Putin in spades)