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Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy theory.

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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:42 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:It absolutely is in Russia's best interest to reduce tensions with the US because Russia understands what the consequences of a nuclear war with the US would be.


Which would be a valid argument is ANYONE on the planet was worried the US would be the instigators of a nuclear war. But even with Trump in office nobody is seriously worried the US is firing the first nuke. Worried Trump might do something so astonishingly stupid he instigates something that causes some lunatic like Kim Jong Un to fire first? Maybe.... but not worried the US will launch first.

So a nuclear war with the US is only a worry for Russia if THEY are planning on starting one. And guess what? They're not.

What they ARE doing is using conventional and non conventional warfare to expand their influence and power and undermine and erode that of the US. And they are doing it amazingly successfully the last few years.

Russia has always been and always will be a competitor to the US but not neccessarily an enemy. Russia was actually an ally during World War 2.


Of the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" variety only. And only because Hitler was stupid enough to backstab Stalin and invade Russia. Otherwise Stalin would have cheerfully sat back under the non aggression pact he had signed with Hitler and watched the west burn.

Tensions with Russia have escalated as a direct consequence of the United States inciting a coup in Ukraine during the Obama/Clinton Presidency. That was abject stupidity.


Might have been, if it wasn't also pure fiction. They didn't "incite" anything.


A neutral Ukraine enabled a stable relationship with Russia


The whole spark for the protests was Yanukovych and his Party of Regions becoming exposed more and more clearly as being in Russia's pocket and anti NATO and anything but 'neutral'.

Oh, btw, guess who worked to get Yanukovych in power? (Hint, he was on the payroll of a Russian Oligarch Mueller reported employed him for the purposes of installing Russia-friendly politicians in other nations and he is currently sitting in a prison cell in America after working to install a certain politician in a rather high office in the US. Rhymes with Saul Banafort.)


while a nationalistic, racist Ukraine hostile to Russia and the ethnic Russian majority in Crimea guarentees conflict. Surprise, surprise, surprise, Russia was not going to surrender Crimea without a fight.


And your language betrays you. They wouldn't "surrender" part of someone else's country?

The Arab Spring fiasco which gave us the Libyan civil war and the Syrian civil war was motivated primarily by France, England and Itally objecting to China getting the big oil contracts from Libya.


Yeah, it wasn't AT ALL about people wanting to not be ruled by dictators... :roll:
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri May 10, 2019 10:01 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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Look who was benefitting from foreign nations interfering with US elections!


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-rap ... 1557522077
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Daryl   » Sat May 11, 2019 4:56 am

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So Malaysia is a threat to the US?
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Look who was benefitting from foreign nations interfering with US elections!


https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-rap ... 1557522077
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Michael Everett   » Sat May 11, 2019 7:56 am

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Daryl wrote:So Malaysia is a threat to the US?

Given that as far as I can tell, it isn't run by a tyrannical dictator who is eager to use assassins to take down those who try to tell the truth about them, then I can easily believe that Trump sees them as being pretty far from being allies.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Dilandu   » Fri May 17, 2019 4:00 am

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gcomeau wrote:
Of the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" variety only. And only because Hitler was stupid enough to backstab Stalin and invade Russia. Otherwise Stalin would have cheerfully sat back under the non aggression pact he had signed with Hitler and watched the west burn.



Hardly. Stalin was perfectly aware that Hitler would betray him sooner or later. But USSR in 1939 desperately needed time to prepare for inevitable conflict. The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact brought two precious years for us to prepare. The only major mistake by Stalin part was, that he assumed that Hitler would be reluctant to start a two-front war, already having one with Britain, and Germany would not be ready to turn against USSR until summer 1942.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Dilandu   » Fri May 17, 2019 4:05 am

Dilandu
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gcomeau wrote:
The whole spark for the protests was Yanukovych and his Party of Regions becoming exposed more and more clearly as being in Russia's pocket and anti NATO and anything but 'neutral'.



Nah. The whole spark was that Yanukovych was trying to sit on both chairs at once, by attempting to play both Russia and West for his own benefits smultaneously. He promised something to Russia, then backed from his word, went to West, promised them something, then backed from his word again... All his rule was an attempt to play both sides for bribes & personal benefits. He was afraid to chose one side, because it would means that significant part of the population would become unhappy.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Fri May 17, 2019 12:03 pm

TFLYTSNBN
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Dilandu wrote:
gcomeau wrote:
The whole spark for the protests was Yanukovych and his Party of Regions becoming exposed more and more clearly as being in Russia's pocket and anti NATO and anything but 'neutral'.



Nah. The whole spark was that Yanukovych was trying to sit on both chairs at once, by attempting to play both Russia and West for his own benefits smultaneously. He promised something to Russia, then backed from his word, went to West, promised them something, then backed from his word again... All his rule was an attempt to play both sides for bribes & personal benefits. He was afraid to chose one side, because it would means that significant part of the population would become unhappy.


Eloquently stated.

Also a situation that should have been acceptable to the US as well as Russia. Unfortunately; Hillary (of the infamous "we came, we saw, he died" quote) was dissatisfied. The fact that Victoria Nuland not only got caught on camera passing out cookies at the Euromadden but also got her phone hacked while dictating who should be in the interim government leaves little doubt that the US stirred up this shitstorm.

It was a repeat of the US inciting the Arab Spring.
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Re: Fallout from "Trump colluded with Russia" conspiracy the
Post by Dilandu   » Fri May 17, 2019 3:45 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
Eloquently stated.

Also a situation that should have been acceptable to the US as well as Russia.


This situation was acceptable for a while, but it simply could not stay for long. Unless both sides would agree to pay Yanukovytch forever for his empty promises, sooner or later either Russia or West would lose the patience. And Ukrainian population was also pretty much fed up with constant "hear me, we are going to EU and NATO! - No, we are going to Mother Russia and Unified Economical Space now! - No, we are all for EU and NATO again!" Basically, the last Maidan (which threw out Yanukovytch) started because population were really angry for constant backing on promises.
------------------------------

- Who would won in battle between strawman Liberal-Democrat and strawman Conservative-Republican?
- Scarecrow from Oz; he was strawman before it became political.

P.S. - And he have Russian twin, to watch his back)
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