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Knives, Knives, Knives

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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by Joat42   » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:45 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:The way you keep ignoring the faft that countries that have European style gun control laws have horrendous homicide rates because they not only have demographics similar to the worst of US cities but also dysfunctional criminal justice systems astonishes me. Even more astonishing is how steadfastly you Eurosnobs ignore the evidence that your changing demographics are rendering your criminal justice systems dysfunctional. Distributing knives with blunted tips is not going to save you.

Projecting much?

---
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by edgeworthy   » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:17 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:

You will get no argument from me regarding police in the US killing too many people. I blame President Clinton for conditioning many police to suffer from a Freudian Phobia of being outgunned by the criminals.

On the other hand, the little darlings that police your country wouldn't be able to survive even one week of policing a major US city, even if our criminals refrained from shooting them. If your cops didn't get themselves beaten, strangled, stabbed, burned or drowned to death, our criminals would amuse themselves by gang raping them.


Did you miss the part where the figures quoted specifically included Ulster. If the Police Service of Northern Ireland (Formerly the RUC ... now there's something you can complain about being PC idiocy) can adapt and survive to a Thirty Years Sectarian Terrorist Campaign I think they can handle a US City.

Very few US Criminals have ever tried to launch an armoured assault on a Police Station.

And if the British Police can handle Football Hooligans, the difference between them and a rioting mob being largely the dress code, a few American deviants will not be an issue.

And more importantly "What is wrong with you?"
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by The E   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:57 am

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:The way you keep ignoring the faft that countries that have European style gun control laws have horrendous homicide rates because they not only have demographics similar to the worst of US cities but also dysfunctional criminal justice systems astonishes me.


"Horrendous", eh?

If our homicide rates over here are "horrendous" (personally, I think that 3 murders per 100k inhabitants per year for the european average or about 1 per 100k inhabitants for the EU specifically really aren't "horrendous" by any stretch of the imagination, but that's just me), what, then, are yours? The US, with its rate of 5.3 per 100k inhabitants (which, I feel the need to remind you, is 5 times the EU average!) is far closer to "horrendous" than the EU is.

Even more astonishing is how steadfastly you Eurosnobs ignore the evidence that your changing demographics are rendering your criminal justice systems dysfunctional. Distributing knives with blunted tips is not going to save you.


Oh no, I am utterly shocked by how dysfunctional our justice systems are! It's so ... what's the word? Yes, "horrendous" that amidst a massive flood of immigrants crime rates in Germany are decreasing (by 3.6% in 2018, for example).
Why, if this trend continues unabated, we might have no crime at all in a couple of years, whatever shall we do then?

I feel for you, TFLY, I really do. Your inability to read and comprehend statistics must make it very hard for you to not appear to be an idiot in these threads.

Also, it's very funny how you decry our "horrendous" crime rates while at the same time bragging that once you ignore all the crimes by non-white people as if they were not americans like you, american crime rates can be improved to be on our level.
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:47 pm

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The E wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:The way you keep ignoring the faft that countries that have European style gun control laws have horrendous homicide rates because they not only have demographics similar to the worst of US cities but also dysfunctional criminal justice systems astonishes me.


"Horrendous", eh?

If our homicide rates over here are "horrendous" (personally, I think that 3 murders per 100k inhabitants per year for the european average or about 1 per 100k inhabitants for the EU specifically really aren't "horrendous" by any stretch of the imagination, but that's just me), what, then, are yours? The US, with its rate of 5.3 per 100k inhabitants (which, I feel the need to remind you, is 5 times the EU average!) is far closer to "horrendous" than the EU is.

Even more astonishing is how steadfastly you Eurosnobs ignore the evidence that your changing demographics are rendering your criminal justice systems dysfunctional. Distributing knives with blunted tips is not going to save you.


Oh no, I am utterly shocked by how dysfunctional our justice systems are! It's so ... what's the word? Yes, "horrendous" that amidst a massive flood of immigrants crime rates in Germany are decreasing (by 3.6% in 2018, for example).
Why, if this trend continues unabated, we might have no crime at all in a couple of years, whatever shall we do then?

I feel for you, TFLY, I really do. Your inability to read and comprehend statistics must make it very hard for you to not appear to be an idiot in these threads.

Also, it's very funny how you decry our "horrendous" crime rates while at the same time bragging that once you ignore all the crimes by non-white people as if they were not americans like you, american crime rates can be improved to be on our level.


You obviously misunderstood that I was referencing Latin American, some African and many Asian and Pacific Island nations that have gun control laws very similar to the European norm yet have homicide rates many times greater than that of the US. It isnt the access to guns that is the problem.
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by gcomeau   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:15 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:
The E wrote:Oh no, I am utterly shocked by how dysfunctional our justice systems are! It's so ... what's the word? Yes, "horrendous" that amidst a massive flood of immigrants crime rates in Germany are decreasing (by 3.6% in 2018, for example).
Why, if this trend continues unabated, we might have no crime at all in a couple of years, whatever shall we do then?

I feel for you, TFLY, I really do. Your inability to read and comprehend statistics must make it very hard for you to not appear to be an idiot in these threads.

Also, it's very funny how you decry our "horrendous" crime rates while at the same time bragging that once you ignore all the crimes by non-white people as if they were not americans like you, american crime rates can be improved to be on our level.


You obviously misunderstood that I was referencing Latin American, some African and many Asian and Pacific Island nations that have gun control laws very similar to the European norm yet have homicide rates many times greater than that of the US. It isnt the access to guns that is the problem.


It has been repeatedly pointed out to you that laws must be actually enforced to be meaningful. And if you have countries where the civil infrastructure is so compromised that effective enforcement does not occur then trying to use the outcome in those places as an argument why those laws don't work when they ARE effectively enforced is idiotic.

And yet you keep doing it.
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:52 pm

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edgeworthy wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:

You will get no argument from me regarding police in the US killing too many people. I blame President Clinton for conditioning many police to suffer from a Freudian Phobia of being outgunned by the criminals.

On the other hand, the little darlings that police your country wouldn't be able to survive even one week of policing a major US city, even if our criminals refrained from shooting them. If your cops didn't get themselves beaten, strangled, stabbed, burned or drowned to death, our criminals would amuse themselves by gang raping them.


Did you miss the part where the figures quoted specifically included Ulster. If the Police Service of Northern Ireland (Formerly the RUC ... now there's something you can complain about being PC idiocy) can adapt and survive to a Thirty Years Sectarian Terrorist Campaign I think they can handle a US City.

Very few US Criminals have ever tried to launch an armoured assault on a Police Station.

And if the British Police can handle Football Hooligans, the difference between them and a rioting mob being largely the dress code, a few American deviants will not be an issue.

And more importantly "What is wrong with you?"


Have you ever been only fifteen minutes late encountering the armed robber who had just shot your grandfather in the chest? Keep in mind that I was on my way to the gunclub with an assortment of rifles and pistols that would terrify you including a loaded high capacity pistol in my holster.

Have you ever found yourself thinking "thank God for Saturday Night Specials" because the bullet from the criminal's .22 caliber pistol that was aimed for the heart was deflected by his tie clasp?

Have you ever watched the cops consume the entire inventory of donuts in your grandfather's grocery store rather than patrol the area in search of the robber's car which they had been given a description of as well as license plate number?

Have you ever been the one who found the armed robber who shot your grandfather when the police failed? No, I didn't kill him, but to quote Jaffar, "you would be amazed what you can survive."

Have you ever had to identify the body of your brother who was killed by someone who was caught in the act of stealing a garbage can? The criminal intentionally ran my brother down with full size Dodge van.

Have you been so mystified by your brother's death that you emulated Cythia by looking under the sterile white sheet?

Have you ever had to see your brother after his arm and his back was broken, and almost all of his ribs had been broken at least once?

Have you ever had to see your brother after he had sufferred a "flail chest injury?"

Do you know what a "flail chest injury" is?

Have you ever had to listen to the paramedics testify that your brother's flail chest injury was so horrific that they were actually able to watch his heart repeatedly start then stop beating as their efforts to revive him failed?

Have you ever visited the scene of the crime the next day to see not just the accelleration and braking marks but the ten meter long trail of cloth, blood, flesh and bone that had been ground into the asphalt to attest to your brother's murder?

Have you ever had to hear the detectives admit that your brother's killer would probably never be identified and arrested?

Have you ever experienced the relief of being informed that your brother's murderer had been arrested only because a photo of your brother with his todler son sitting on his shoulders that had been published in the newspaper had motivated someone who had been aiding and abetting the crime after the fact to turn him in?

Have you ever had to comfort your brother's toddler son as well as his widow who was pregnant with his daughter?

Have you ever had to decide who you were going to ask to be the best man at your wedding because your brother had been murdered only six weeks after you got engaged?

Have you ever had a detective show you the arrest record for your brother's murderer that ran to over a dozen pages of computer printout? Amomg the many drug offenses and petty thefts were a number of violent assaults. The assaults included abducting his pregnant girlfriend and attempting to induce an abortion by repeatedly kicking her in the stomach with steel toed shoes. He avoided conviction by refusing to show up for trial.

Have you ever realized that the police could have found your brother's murderer without the aid of an informant if they had followed your suggestion that they correllate any known criminals living in the area who had a history of petty thefts and violence and owned a Dodge van?

Have you ever learned that your brother's murderer had been free on his own recognizance pending trial for yet another crime when he murdered your brother?

Have you ever been grateful for the women at your church allowing you to hold their infants because that reminded you of what you would loose if you turned vigilante?

Have you ever listened to the Jury's verdict to convict of felony murder and manslaughter but acquit of agrevated murder because they just could not comprehend that a motor vehicle could be intentionally used as a lethal weapon just like a gun or a knife?

Have you had to listen to the defense attorney make the argument that your brother's murderer was not intending to kill because he didn't use a gun or a knife? I believe that the families of the Nice truck attack and the German Christmas market truck attack and the London Bridge car attack would all agree that a motor vehicle can be intentionally employed as a deadly weapon just like a fully automatic machinegun.

Have you ever been relieved to hear the Judge take judicial notice of the fact that your brother's 28 year old murderer had a 16 year old girlfriend who was pregnant and thus classify him as a sex offender to justify going far beyond the 13 years and probably out in 7 recomended by the prosecution or the 7 years and probably out in 4 recomended by the degense to sentence him to 25 years to life?

Have you ever stopped pontificating your anti-American drivel long enough to actually research historical trends in arrest rates in the US, interjurisdictional comparison of arrest rates within the US, as well as international comparisons of arrest rates and murder rates so that you can comprehend that the probability of arrest and successful prosecution is absolutely the most relevant factor correlating to murder rates?

Has it even occurred to you that may be the problem is the police and the courts and the juries rather than the heavy trucks or the sharp knives or the guns?

No! Of course not! You would have to cease being an anti-American bigot to actually do some critical thinking!
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by noblehunter   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:57 pm

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So if it's about law enforcement, why are you always doing on about "demographics" and gun control? If the presence or absence of guns don't have an effect on crime, shouldn't we focus on their effect on accidental injuries?
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:12 pm

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gcomeau wrote:
It has been repeatedly pointed out to you that laws must be actually enforced to be meaningful. And if you have countries where the civil infrastructure is so compromised that effective enforcement does not occur then trying to use the outcome in those places as an argument why those laws don't work when they ARE effectively enforced is idiotic.

And yet you keep doing it.



I have been repeatedly pointing out to you that laws must actually be enforced to be meaningful. This applies to laws against murder far more than laws against guns because murderers can easily employ other weapons when guns are unavailable.

Peruse these statistics on Mecxico.

https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/mexico

In spite of restrictive, European style gun laws, very low rate of gun ownership, a low percentage of homicides committed with guns, Mexico's homicide rate is much higher than the United States', about triple.
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:15 pm

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noblehunter wrote:So if it's about law enforcement, why are you always doing on about "demographics" and gun control? If the presence or absence of guns don't have an effect on crime, shouldn't we focus on their effect on accidental injuries?



Inspite of the growing number of guns in the US, accidental gun deaths in the US have been plumeting for decades. Many more people are killed in auto accidents, drownings and falls. More young children are killed by toiletd and bathtubs in the home than guns in the home.
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Re: Knives, Knives, Knives
Post by noblehunter   » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:21 pm

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TFLYTSNBN wrote:Inspite of the growing number of guns in the US, accidental gun deaths in the US have been plumeting for decades. Many more people are killed in auto accidents, drownings and falls. More young children are killed by toiletd and bathtubs in the home than guns in the home.


Why might the number of guns not correlate with the number of deaths and injuries due to firearms? ETA: I mean besides your implicit argument that there's no relationship.
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