Stuff you just can't make up

Interesting discussion. I probably should point out a couple of things. We do have junior award rates where a 15 year old or in some cases a 20 year old gets paid less than the adult minimum wage. For those with limited skills there are initial subsidies to assist employers to get them trained.
Our unfair dismissal laws still allow you to sack people, and I did sack a number for laziness, minor fraud, and such. You just have to go through a process to prove that there is a real reason.
Same for tenancies. Having investment houses I've evicted a few tenants for various reasons. Due process is the key.
Your comment of getting someone worth the pay doesn't always apply. There are dead end unskilled jobs where you just need a warm body present.
As in all things the proof of the pudding is in the eating. It appears that both yours and our systems work, with more similarities than differences. We don't have the "working poor" at least to the same extent as you do, and possibly entry level workers in the US find it easier to get a job paying $7 an hour than ours do getting a $14 USD an hour job.

Daryl wrote:For those with limited skills there are initial subsidies to assist employers to get them trained.

Soooo…your government has to bribe employers with your tax money to hire the people rendered unemployable by your ‘employee protection’ laws and high minimum wage?

Daryl wrote:There are dead end unskilled jobs where you just need a warm body present.

So you hire some youngster for his/her first job, they learn the habits of showing up on time, every day, and doing that menial work, and after a year or two they find a better job and you hire somebody else. How is that a dead end?

That only works if the minimum wage is low and you can sack the non-performers without going through some long tortuous expensive legal process. You don't have as much to lose if you pick a bad apple, and they don't have much to lose because they don't have huge financial obligations.

Daryl wrote:Having investment houses I've evicted a few tenants for various reasons. Due process is the key.

I am evicting some tenants for being over a year behind on the rent, and they’re still there, and still not paying rent. When I finally do get them out, I will have to spend over $70,000 renovating the house. After that, I’m going to sell it. It’s been too much of a hassle.

I’ll keep my other rental property for now. I’ve got a good tenant in there, and no mortgage.
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Irony: Falling off a chair while putting up an OSHA workplace safety notice.

At 5.6%, Australia's unemployment rate is the highest it's been in years, while the underemployment rate is over 8%.

Obviously different mindsets.
Mine (and my society's for a century now) is that it is unaccepable to pay someone a wage that doesn't provide for necessities of life. To work around that, government does pay a subsidy for a defined period to compensate the employer for the training effort they put in. The expectation is that they will continue on in the job, which is well enough paid that they can stay if that's what they want.
Sacking some one isn't a tortuous task, just procedural. One benefit is that it reduces bullying by the employer. Any threats of dismissal have to be linked to performance issues.
Our Residential Tenants Agency seems to be well sorted. A landlord has to give two weeks notice after all consultation fails. We require four weeks rent as a bond, so if they start to get close to that in arrears we send an eviction notice. All our current tenants seem to be excellent, and long term, so we look after them.

Daryl wrote:Mine (and my society's for a century now) is that it is unaccepable to pay someone a wage that doesn't provide for necessities of life.

Our minimum wage does 'provide for the necessities of life' for one person, living frugally. If you want to buy a house and a flashy car, and raise a family, you have to aspire to something more than flipping burgers and wiping tables.

The 'progressives' believe that every grocery bagger should be able to buy a McMansion and raise five kids without ever needing to learn a useful skill. Now the grocery stores are doing away with baggers.

Daryl wrote:Sacking some one isn't a tortuous task, just procedural.

When has anything involving the government and lawyers NOT been long, tortuous and expensive?

Daryl wrote:A landlord has to give two weeks notice after all consultation fails.

I filed the eviction in court a long time ago. It's still grinding through the system. In California there are 'advocate groups' that help deadbeat tenants find every possible roadblock and delaying action, dragging the eviction out for months and months.
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My wife is giving me the silent treatment.
Hasn't said a word to me in three days.
Wish I knew what set her off — so I can do it again!

So you can live on the US minimum wage of about $7 an hour? Interesting, as it would be impossible here.
There does seem to be a cultural aspect here as well, as I detect a feeling that it is shameful there to be in a minimum wage job for long periods of time?

Why would dismissing someone using correct procedures involve government or lawyers?

Sorry to hear about your tenancy problems, glad we don't have that system.

Daryl wrote:So you can live on the US minimum wage of about $7 an hour? Interesting, as it would be impossible here.

$7.25 USD/hr would be just over $10 AUD. If it's not possible for one person to live frugally on $10, I would suspect that it's because the minimum wage has been artificially inflated and driven up the cost of everything. That's what happens when the cost of unskilled labor is arbitrarily set to something greater than its value. The currency inflates until the two quantities are again equal.

Daryl wrote:I detect a feeling that it is shameful there to be in a minimum wage job for long periods of time?

That's mostly just me. I don't have much respect for any supposed adult that sits around whining about the low pay of a job that wouldn't tax the ability of the average high-school dropout, instead of showing a little initiative and getting a better job.

I have learned a lot of things over the years. I can design and lay out computer boards, write programs in C and several assembly languages, rebuild engines and transmissions, rebuild a roof, renovate a kitchen or bathroom, install and finish drywall, wire a house, build a fence, replace windows and doors, install plumbing, set forms and pour a reinforced slab with footings, put up solar panels, and a lot of other useful skills. I would never be stuck in a minimum-wage job for long.
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It is beyond the power of any government to increase the value of unskilled labor, only to raise its cost.

The real killer for minimum wage jobs is your probably aren't looking at 40 hour weeks. While you might be able to live on the equivalent of US minimum in my town at full time, if it's a minimum wage job you probably won't get full time hours. So you'll need some kind of additional assistance.

The full time/part time split is because statutory rules regarding benefits and such kick in for full time employees (I think). That's a separate issue than minimum wage though. It's probably easier to get a raise above minimum wage than to go from part time to full time.

noblehunter wrote:The full time/part time split is because statutory rules regarding benefits and such kick in for full time employees (I think).

Yes! Exactly! The 'progressives' got laws passed 'to help the working poor' and wound up making them worse off than ever. Will they ever admit their mistake and repeal those stupid laws? Of course not! Obviously, the solution to stupid counterproductive laws is MORE stupid laws!

Big Government is their answer to everything. If people make choices they don't agree with, take away everybody's choices and usher in the Brave New World!
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Complex questions never have simple answers. Hell, most simple questions don't have simple answers.

As before an interesting discussion. I like your list of personal abilities as they are surprisingly similar to mine. I could add build a race car from scratch (space frame etc), win races, then convert it and register it for road use, then commute for seven years before selling it. I'm sure we could swap anecdotes for some time.
My difference is that I don't despise (or disrespect) those who remain at the bottom of the jobs ladder. We all have things we are good and bad at. I couldn't be a ballet dancer or an artist, and some people just can't do work above base level.

Imaginos1892 wrote:

Daryl wrote:So you can live on the US minimum wage of about $7 an hour? Interesting, as it would be impossible here.

$7.25 USD/hr would be just over $10 AUD. If it's not possible for one person to live frugally on $10, I would suspect that it's because the minimum wage has been artificially inflated and driven up the cost of everything. That's what happens when the cost of unskilled labor is arbitrarily set to something greater than its value. The currency inflates until the two quantities are again equal.

Daryl wrote:I detect a feeling that it is shameful there to be in a minimum wage job for long periods of time?

That's mostly just me. I don't have much respect for any supposed adult that sits around whining about the low pay of a job that wouldn't tax the ability of the average high-school dropout, instead of showing a little initiative and getting a better job.

I have learned a lot of things over the years. I can design and lay out computer boards, write programs in C and several assembly languages, rebuild engines and transmissions, rebuild a roof, renovate a kitchen or bathroom, install and finish drywall, wire a house, build a fence, replace windows and doors, install plumbing, set forms and pour a reinforced slab with footings, put up solar panels, and a lot of other useful skills. I would never be stuck in a minimum-wage job for long.
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It is beyond the power of any government to increase the value of unskilled labor, only to raise its cost.