Guns, Guns Guns

HB of CJ wrote:I will go further and suggest that unless you live in the USA and actually own and employee firearms, then just shut the FOOK up.

You poor, poor creature. Such a shame to be living in a world where you have to deal with the opinions of foreigners.

I'm sure you can find an americans-only, second-amendment fanatics only forum somewhere on the internet where your preconceptions will never be tested or your opinions will never be challenged by others. A safe space, if you will. Maybe you'd be happier there.

I am cleaning my machine gun. All Oregon State, US Code Laws, NFA Rules And The US Constitution Second Amendment Apply.

However, if the above is not to your taste, if you actually care more about making good arguments than trying to censor lines of argumentation you are unable or unwilling to deal with, you have to ask yourself just why you made that addendum to your post. Why tell us this? What's the point?

HB, seriously think about what you're doing here. One of the more serious accusations against modern liberals is that we are creating safe spaces where certain speech is prohibited; what you are trying to do (futilely, I might add) is pretty much the same thing from a conservative perspective. Do you really think that a discussion is improved if everyone who participates agrees all the time?

[quote="gcomeau"]
"I am a good responsible gun owner and most other people are good responsible gun owners and nobody should be worried about any of us being armed and if anyone has a problem with that and tries to pass laws we don't like on the matter then PREPARE FOR A BLOODBATH!


You do get how you kind of undermine your initial argument by ending it that way... right?[/quote}

I'm sorry. I must have missed my point. or...perhaps you have.
As Some Rham Emmanual said: the gun problem in Chicago is Indiana." it is NOT the majority of LEGAL gun owners, it is the resale of guns on the secondary market. I have no idea how much is driven by the theft of firearms, the barter of legally obtained firearms for drugs, or straw purchases for the intent of resale to those who can not legally purchase them, or desire to evade state registration laws.

And I maybe cashing my "white privilege" card here, but, the high rise public housing tenements in Chicago were notorious for being controlled by drug gangs to the extent that the police would not patrol them.

I am for closing loopholes in the law. Oregon closed the "gunshow" loop hole. And, no I did not rush to Armslist and backpage to make last minute purchases before the law went into effect. But do you see the idiotic laws they proposes? Registering magazines with the county sherrif? How, without serial numbers are we supposed to comply, how do the police enforce it? Banning semi-automatic firearms? Like my Remington 1100, Mossberg .22lr rifle, my High Standard .22lr target pistol, my S&W 9mm pistol: the wife's GSG .22lr pistol, ruger 1022 rifle. Definitely NOT "assault style rifles. The people writing and proposing these laws are complete morons when it comes to firearms. NOW they're talking about banning guns by caliber. I suppose they have a problem with my Remington 700 chambered in .338 Win Mag, because it is just too similar to the Swedish sniper rifle (.338 Lapua Mag)

YOU , personally, may not be talking gun bans, but people here on both the state and federal levels certainly are. And I will not apologize or defend the NRA and other rabid persons who oppose all legislation. I do oppose STUPID legislation whose sole function seems to be "do no real good, pat ourselves on the back for 'doing something'."
Here in the US there is enough "rabidity" on both sides. All knee jerk reaction and no mental mediation.

When you have lived in the good old USA for about 50 years and understand how the US Constitution works, then you have the right to spout off. Until then The E, you can shut the FOOK up also. Non respectfully. HB of CJ

HB of CJ wrote:When you have lived in the good old USA for about 50 years and understand how the US Constitution works, then you have the right to spout off. Until then The E, you can shut the FOOK up also. Non respectfully. HB of CJ

I'm afraid I cannot do that, Dave.

Also, you can't make me. You have two choices: Either participate in the thread and try to find arguments to support your positions, or get out. This whole thing where you're trying to pretend as if people cannot have opinions on US politics without being american is silly, and just makes your side of the argument look incredibly weak.

Coming from outside gives a different perspective, not necessarily a correct one but different.
Weirdly wired, your guns would not be legal here. The pistols never, and the semiauto long guns not for about 20 years. If your Remington 700 is bolt action it would be ok. I legally own - a bolt action shotgun (for magnum slugs), side by side shotgun, 303 service rifle, bolt action 22, and high powered air rifle. While your guns are not assault rifles, being semi auto and most concealable they are deemed too dangerous.
How much is gun laws, how much a welfare net that avoids gang culture, or whatever, we have 29 times less likelihood of being shot dead here. Recently a 22 year old muslim fundamentalist nut decided to earn his 43 virgins by trying to kill his 57 year old neighbour. Using a knife meant he only wounded him before another neighbour hit him with a fence paling, the police turned up and tasered him. With a semi auto gun it would have been very different.
HB please stay and play, as you have great insights, but don't try to censor us.

Daryl wrote:Coming from outside gives a different perspective, not necessarily a correct one but different.
Weirdly wired, your guns would not be legal here. The pistols never, and the semiauto long guns not for about 20 years. If your Remington 700 is bolt action it would be ok.

"it is what it is ... deal with it." I am possibly being The Ugly American here. As Australia was first settled by the British with the penal population, I assume only the military had firearms. I also assume that from the beginning, firearms were rather tightly controlled.

In the US we claimed the right to individual gun ownership and enshrined it in the much avowed or accursed 2nd Amendment way back in 1787. Yes now we have a problem.

It seems to have reached "what it is" sometime in the late 60s to early 70s as the returning Vietnam vets sought to feed their opioid dependency, coupled with the hippie movement feeding "Reefer Madness." This caused an upsurge in drug gangs and the arms race as they fought over turf. Which inevitably led to the "militarization" of police forces where turf wars devolved to Vietnam style "free-fire zones"

I am also seeing an alarming upsurge of people being attacked with knives and skateboards, machetes and camp axes here in the US. We are a violent society and the new wave of opioid addiction [prescription meds] is fuelling the fire.

Guns are a symptom, easy to scapegoat, at least here in the USA. Eliminating guns will, perhaps ease "collateral damage" but the carnage of drug addiction, and the free market supplying the demand will persist.

Alienation and bullying will continue, other violent means of coping will be sought and found.

I realize my guns would not be legal in lots of places outside the US. I don't really care. (no offense meant)My guns are legal here, I do keep them stored safely. yes the 700 is a bolt action as is my first shotgun. handguns would never be legal thee, but I do own a coupe of revolvers because they are fun in their own way to shoot and the recoil is different.

I do appreciate other perspectives and cultures, and try to respect both. I also realize, my fault, it does not always come across that way.

WeirdlyWired wrote:"it is what it is ... deal with it." I am possibly being The Ugly American here. As Australia was first settled by the British with the penal population, I assume only the military had firearms. I also assume that from the beginning, firearms were rather tightly controlled.

Suggest you reread what Daryl has already written on the forum, several times even.

In short, don´t assume without having any knowledge at all.

Remember that Australia has often been compared to the kliché style "Wild West"...

In the US we claimed the right to individual gun ownership and enshrined it in the much avowed or accursed 2nd Amendment way back in 1787. Yes now we have a problem.

No, you claimed the right to have an armed militia to uphold your independence with, as your nation wasn´t supposed to have an army.
And you did that because previously, the British had forbidden that.

Guns are a symptom, easy to scapegoat, at least here in the USA.

It IS a symptom yes, but it is also to SOME extent part of the problem. Overly simply put, a plentiful presence of guns, makes people nervous, nervous people are more likely to be aggressive and make mistakes, as well as fall back on aquiring weapons themselves.
And then of course there´s the basic matter of how many do neither store nor maintain their weapons safely.

There´s statistics ( of the very hard to verify kind, still, it is at least not entirely wrong ) showing USA to have more children(/per capita) getting injured or killed by guns(by accident), than some places in Africa and Asia where children are forced into being soldiers en masse.

The numbers are uncertain and very unspecific, but they´re still not a pretty sight.

I do keep them stored safely.

Good to hear, as that is by far THE most common failure among gun owners.

If i wanted to get a license here, the police would come check that my storage for them was adequate, and they also have some rather limited right to come back and check that an owner is sticking to regs(not a common thing, but might happen once in 3-10 years for an average owner, or after there´s been thefts or illegal use of a weapon like those you have).

I do oppose STUPID legislation whose sole function seems to be "do no real good, pat ourselves on the back for 'doing something'."

Indeed. Either do something worthwhile or don´t bother.

You do see the irony of telling people they don't have a right to talk because they haven't lived in the USA for 50 year and understand how the US Constitution works when the First Amendment of the US Constitution is Freedom of Speech, right?

I believe Jim Jefferies (an Australian comedian who had spent a lot of time in the USA) summed it up well, "Your First Amendment means I can say the Second Amendment sucks dicks" (link to videos below, 0:35 in on part 2).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0 (Part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4 (Part 2)

HB of CJ wrote:When you have lived in the good old USA for about 50 years and understand how the US Constitution works, then you have the right to spout off. Until then The E, you can shut the FOOK up also. Non respectfully. HB of CJ

Thanks for an interesting response. You are always polite and never the "Ugly American".
As stated I am a gun owner, and years ago actually made money from hunting, so I'm not antigun. If I lived in certain parts of the US I might have got a hand gun for self defence.
I do think your situation is too far gone to fix now. When we had our big gun buy back I got compensated for two assault rifles. But they were for hunting, a gun for self defence here is like a surfboard in the Sahara, useless and inappropriate.
We have a big problem with violent ice addition here, but generally they don't get guns.

WeirdlyWired wrote:

Daryl wrote:Coming from outside gives a different perspective, not necessarily a correct one but different.
Weirdly wired, your guns would not be legal here. The pistols never, and the semiauto long guns not for about 20 years. If your Remington 700 is bolt action it would be ok.

"it is what it is ... deal with it." I am possibly being The Ugly American here. As Australia was first settled by the British with the penal population, I assume only the military had firearms. I also assume that from the beginning, firearms were rather tightly controlled.

In the US we claimed the right to individual gun ownership and enshrined it in the much avowed or accursed 2nd Amendment way back in 1787. Yes now we have a problem.

It seems to have reached "what it is" sometime in the late 60s to early 70s as the returning Vietnam vets sought to feed their opioid dependency, coupled with the hippie movement feeding "Reefer Madness." This caused an upsurge in drug gangs and the arms race as they fought over turf. Which inevitably led to the "militarization" of police forces where turf wars devolved to Vietnam style "free-fire zones"

I am also seeing an alarming upsurge of people being attacked with knives and skateboards, machetes and camp axes here in the US. We are a violent society and the new wave of opioid addiction [prescription meds] is fuelling the fire.

Guns are a symptom, easy to scapegoat, at least here in the USA. Eliminating guns will, perhaps ease "collateral damage" but the carnage of drug addiction, and the free market supplying the demand will persist.

Alienation and bullying will continue, other violent means of coping will be sought and found.

I realize my guns would not be legal in lots of places outside the US. I don't really care. (no offense meant)My guns are legal here, I do keep them stored safely. yes the 700 is a bolt action as is my first shotgun. handguns would never be legal thee, but I do own a coupe of revolvers because they are fun in their own way to shoot and the recoil is different.

I do appreciate other perspectives and cultures, and try to respect both. I also realize, my fault, it does not always come across that way.

I must admit, there is a large cultural difference in our gun statistics.

Quite a few years ago, in Melbourne Aust, 2 crime gangs went to war.
Over a 10 year period.

Only 1 innocent person was killed (Mistaken identity. right name right job and work location, but the wrong person)
I think he might have been the only innocent hurt even.

They took care.

Even the bikie gang wars avoid killing innocents.

We had our violent, wild west period. Our native masacrea.
But it didn't degenerate like it did in the US.

Probably a history thesis in that for someone one day.


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