Guns, Guns Guns

HB of CJ wrote:Yep. This thread has kinda strayed. A thought just passed my very feeble mind. How many here own and bear their own LEGAL automatic rifle? Gun control is hitting your target.

Why would i want to?

That is the reason for the Second Amendment.

No.

HB of CJ wrote:The Second Amendment Of The United States Constitution is NOT about ruining the venison. Sadly and seriously, it IS about ruining any nasty enemy, be that private, corporate, foreign or domestic, INCLUDING giving pause to our own out of control government. That is the reason for the Second Amendment. Hunting does not enter into it. Kinda scary isn't it? .

Scary that you could actually believe that the Founders intended the 2nd amendment to better enable sedition and treason, yes.


Using force of arms against the democratically elected government is criminal. The Founders thought so every bit as much as any other sane person.

The 2nd was NOT written to arm the people against the government they freaking elected. It was written to arm the militias which were to be under the command of that government. The defense against that government turning tyrannical was first and foremost the requirement it regularly stand for election, and a DISTANT second... making the militias the PRIMARY military force of the nation rather than a standing full time professional army.

Hard for a government to turn tyrant over the people when the only force it has to enforce said tyranny is the people themselves and it has to somehow organize this tyrannical takeover in the space between one election and the next.

(And yet funnily enough it tends to be all the same people constantly hand wringing about a tyrannical government who also get all worked up at any suggestion the defense budget needs to be seriously cut back.)

An intelligent mind is such a bad thing to waste. But then of course many folks who live in a Socialist Nation can falsely assume their education is more accurate, timely and superior to those who had to do school senior year projects working and living in a tourist trap American History community.

Williamsburg Virginia. Not too far where I was born and brought up ... along with a very conservative proper American History education. Do not upset that man behind the curtain. He can out run you and out gun you. ANY efforts for some to re define the Bill Of Rights is doomed to failure.

Take it from somebody who had to do the lumping and lifting. The Second Amendment is about the ABILITY of an armed population to over throw a bad government and replace it with another. Very scary. Very true. Can YOU do so? Can you physically and by force do so in your Nation?

IF YOU CAN NOT THEN YOU ARE A SLAVE. If you can but CHOOSE not to do so, then you are a citizen. Kinda hard to explain to some, but there you have it. You have the folks who can. And you have the sheeple who can not. Yikes indeed.

And ... never start a new paragraph with a conjunction. No ... wait ... what I mean to say is that Automatic Weapons are legal for us to own and use where we live. Machine guns are cool. Gun Control is my grand daughter hitting the target with "Her" M2 Carbine. Short controlled bursts.

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. This is the usual legal declaration that states automatic weapons are legal to own and possess here in SW OR USA. You local, city, county, state or national laws may greatly vary. Please consider why this is so. Self examination is good.

Respectfully.

To summarise, if you and your group don't have the means to overthrow your democratically elected government by using lethal automatic wepons to kill people, then you are SLAVES.
To outsiders that is loony tunes.

HB of CJ wrote:An intelligent mind is such a bad thing to waste. But then of course many folks who live in a Socialist Nation can falsely assume their education is more accurate, timely and superior to those who had to do school senior year projects working and living in a tourist trap American History community.

Williamsburg Virginia. Not too far where I was born and brought up ... along with a very conservative proper American History education. Do not upset that man behind the curtain. He can out run you and out gun you. ANY efforts for some to re define the Bill Of Rights is doomed to failure.

Take it from somebody who had to do the lumping and lifting. The Second Amendment is about the ABILITY of an armed population to over throw a bad government and replace it with another. Very scary. Very true. Can YOU do so? Can you physically and by force do so in your Nation?

IF YOU CAN NOT THEN YOU ARE A SLAVE. If you can but CHOOSE not to do so, then you are a citizen. Kinda hard to explain to some, but there you have it. You have the folks who can. And you have the sheeple who can not. Yikes indeed.

And ... never start a new paragraph with a conjunction. No ... wait ... what I mean to say is that Automatic Weapons are legal for us to own and use where we live. Machine guns are cool. Gun Control is my grand daughter hitting the target with "Her" M2 Carbine. Short controlled bursts.

All Oregon State, US Code Laws And NFA Rules Apply. This is the usual legal declaration that states automatic weapons are legal to own and possess here in SW OR USA. You local, city, county, state or national laws may greatly vary. Please consider why this is so. Self examination is good.

Respectfully.

Daryl wrote:To summarise, if you and your group don't have the means to overthrow your democratically elected government by using lethal automatic wepons to kill people, then you are SLAVES.
To outsiders that is loony tunes.

To pretty much anyone who understands how the rule of law works in a civilized society that's loony tunes, which is most people outside a particular segment of the GOP base.

Well Daryl from down under. We will remain cousins across the seas separated by common sense, reason and sanity and all that other good stuff.

Yes, you may be a slave. Could YOU and armed others, very much against your will and courage, physically seize your BAD FAILED government?

Could you take it back by force of arms? Nobody would have to die: could you just force a change in a bad government by armed citizen intervention?

If you can not, then you are a SLAVE. If you will not, then you are a SHEEPLE. Take your medicine and choose Daryl. What one are you? Rather sad.

We took back our Nation by 1782-5. Our Revolutionary War. Very nasty and bloody. We were lucky. But the British did NOT give us away. History.

Sosss .... our founding fathers who were also blood soaked patriots who lost everything, placed wordage in our Bill Of Rights. Very sobbering. Very scary.

A long time ago. Could today a legally armed US Citizenry by force of arms change our Bad National Government? Dunno. A very sobering thought.

All Oregon State Laws, US Code National Laws, And NFA Rules Apply. This means what we have is legal. Our elected officals don't like it? Good.

Respectfully.

HB of CJ wrote:Well Daryl from down under. We will remain cousins across the seas separated by common sense, reason and sanity and all that other good stuff.

Yes, you may be a slave. Could YOU and armed others, very much against your will and courage, physically seize your BAD FAILED government?

Could you?

(hint, the answer begins with an "N" and ends with an "o". Whatever delusional fantasies you might have about storming out your front door with your rifle and taking on the government there's these things called the National guard and the US military these days that would be deployed against anyone making an armed attempt to stage a coup. And sorry, you're not winning a standoff with them.)

Could I all by myself by force of arms take back my very bad failed government? That is a silly question. No. Nor would I want to. I would fail. It would also be against many laws of the land which also would preclude me from breaking ANY, which I do not, have not and again, do not intend to.

But ... and here is where folks do not understand for whatever reason. If 10 million pissed folks took up arms to replace a failed government, then it becomes a revolt by many and not multiple felonies by just one ... or a few. If they succeed, then history does paint with a broad brush.

This is something lost today by the liberal sheeple slave roll over and play nice so called citizens from various liberal, socialist nations. Our nation was FOUNDED by bloody revolt. What about Sweden and Australia? What is your history? See the difference? A huge distinction.

If our Revolutionary War had failed, and it almost did many times, all of our Patriots would have been executed by horrible methods by England for high treason. Why were they not? BECAUSE THEY SUCCEEDED. Read our Declaration Of Independence. Quite a bunch of pissed off patriots.

You are losing this discussion. You failed shallow answers indicate such. In your hearts you know I am right, only you do not have the balls to agree. Your slave and sheeple state overwhelms any original thinking. Sad. You can repent. Scary to do so. Think this through please.

Respectfully I think. Beginning to wonder.

GUNS GUNS GUNS, more GUNS. Responsible legal firearm ownership is a responsibility and duty of US Citizenship. Your slave state and sheeple national gun laws may vary.

HB of CJ wrote:Could I all by myself by force of arms take back my very bad failed government? That is a silly question. No. Nor would I want to. I would fail. It would also be against many laws of the land which also would preclude me from breaking ANY, which I do not, have not and again, do not intend to.

But ... and here is where folks do not understand for whatever reason. If 10 million pissed folks took up arms to replace a failed government, then it becomes a revolt by many and not multiple felonies by just one ... or a few. If they succeed, then history does paint with a broad brush.

Ok, let's say 10 million people. Elections every few years, even with the sad voter participation rate in the US the current government would have been elected by at least 60 million or so of your fellow citizens fairly damn recently.

So how is this going to work genius? You somehow manage to take out the US military AND National guard AND subjugate by force of arms the *majority* that elected the government you didn't like.

Now what? Re-establish a free and democratic state? Because your 10 million insurrectionists are still going to get outvoted if you do that, unless step 2 is mass executions of any civilians who disagree with your political views THEN re-establishing free elections?

Only allow the people who agree with you to vote? Make over the US all North Korea style and have nice impressive 99% election margin of victories?

Or do your fantasies on this subject never get past the "bang bang glorious battle" stage of thinking?

This is something lost today by the liberal sheeple slave roll over and play nice so called citizens from various liberal, socialist nations. Our nation was FOUNDED by bloody revolt.

Because it WASN'T A FREAKING DEMOCRACY. Overthrowing a remote monarchist oppressor is a WORLD of difference from overthrowing the government a majority of your neighbors just fucking voted for.

HB you keep saying respectfully. How can you respectfully call us sheeple and slaves? Totally un respectfully, and deeply insulting. I echo gcomeau's words fully.

The words we would use for people who keep automatic military weapons with the expressed potential purpose of overthrowing an elected government that they don't happen to agree with are - traitor, terrorist, lunatic, or nutter. Definitely not patriot.
As to "Nobody would have to die", just not on. No one would say "Oh you're upset, here please have the keys to congress".

As to freedom, I believe that I'm just as, if not freer than you. Our system isn't identical but has similar outcomes. The US is a great and good nation so no disrespect meant or implied, but - Total freedom of individual speech and the press. Our laws are similar in many ways with presumption of innocence, trial by jury, and incarceration rates per 100,000 are 716 versus 152 (guess who's higher?).
On personal matters our overall welfare and health care net ensures that no citizen dies from lack of medical care or food.
On finances it is true that our big business and financial institutions are less free than yours, but this ensure individual citizens are freer from worry. How many banks did the GFC kill in the US? None here.
As to having firearms to ensure personal physical safety, we can and do still own guns, but semi autos and concealables are not generally available. The result is that the thought of being armed when in public never would occur. Our senior politicians freely mingle with the public while jogging, shopping or kissing babies on election days.
Enjoy your society but don't ever believe that we are not free.