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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by dscott8   » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:22 am

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pokermind wrote:Well the Racist bigots in the White House (Obama and his wife) are all worried about Blacks shot by white people and cops continuing to stir up racial hate and divisiveness. Well here are the Statistics from last year Note Whites have more to fear from blacks or the Police than blacks have to fear from whites and the police combined:

With Black Culture revering criminals and being a Gangster is it any wonder they are killing each other?

Poker


That graphic, from one of Trump's re-tweets, has been debunked by FactCheck.org. The "Crime Statistics Bureau - San Francisco" does not exist.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump- ... e-graphic/
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by gcomeau   » Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:49 am

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dscott8 wrote:
pokermind wrote:Well the Racist bigots in the White House (Obama and his wife) are all worried about Blacks shot by white people and cops continuing to stir up racial hate and divisiveness. Well here are the Statistics from last year Note Whites have more to fear from blacks or the Police than blacks have to fear from whites and the police combined:

With Black Culture revering criminals and being a Gangster is it any wonder they are killing each other?

Poker


That graphic, from one of Trump's re-tweets, has been debunked by FactCheck.org. The "Crime Statistics Bureau - San Francisco" does not exist.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/trump- ... e-graphic/


Trump is establishing a pattern of re-tweeting white supremacists and their propaganda material on twitter.

Once or twice? Oopsie.

Dozens of times... we have an issue.


(Poker... don't follow in his foot steps. You're still at 'oopsie' stage. Although calling the Obama's "racist bigots" is pushing things on that front.)
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 4:24 am

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Zakharra wrote: 1. I think it is safe for a black person to carry. Obviously the odds of a black being shot by police is higher, but the odds of anyone being shot by police are not that high. Despite what the news media and BLM people imply. I personally have no issue with any American adult carrying a firearm.


Coming back to this, because there's something I'd like you to read and watch:

http://reverbpress.com/justice/open-car ... -policing/
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:06 am

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http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28107/

This Harvard study supports your assertion on police bias and the use of force with one glaring exception. Blacks are less likely to be killed than whites in an encounter with the police.

Yet since blacks are more likely to commit violent crime in the US, is that bias purely race driven or is it based on culture that skin color is just a part of? The bias is targeting behavior and attempts to find clues indication criminal behavior as quickly as possible.

The E wrote:
Zakharra wrote: 1. I think it is safe for a black person to carry. Obviously the odds of a black being shot by police is higher, but the odds of anyone being shot by police are not that high. Despite what the news media and BLM people imply. I personally have no issue with any American adult carrying a firearm.


Coming back to this, because there's something I'd like you to read and watch:

http://reverbpress.com/justice/open-car ... -policing/
Last edited by PeterZ on Wed Jul 13, 2016 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:34 am

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(Pokermind, take note: See how PeterZ does a very good job of finding actual research to support his arguments, using articles that properly attribute their findings and giving links to the original research. This is much better than the bullshit you are reposting here.)

PeterZ wrote:http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/28107/

This Harvard study supports your assertion on police bias and the use of force with one glaring exception. Blacks are less likely to be killed than whites in an encounter with the police.


You are right, that is a very interesting result that I would not have predicted based on the data available to me. Thank you for bringing it to my, and our, attention. Having read it, while it definitely undermines the point that black people are shot more freely than whites, it still definitely supports the argument that there is a qualitative difference in your average interactions with the police depending on your race, which is something that needs to be addressed.

Yet since blacks are more likely to commit violent crime in the US, is that bias purely race driven or is it based on culture that skin Colorado is just a part of? The bias is targeting behavior and attempts to find clues indication criminal behavior as quickly as possible.


So statistically speaking, black people are, on average, more likely to commit crimes than whites. That seems to be an undisputable fact. But in what way should that fact govern the day-to-day interactions between law enforcement and blacks? What is the effect on the black community if, no matter how upstanding a citizen you are, you will get treated worse by the cops just for sharing a skin color with a large portion of the US prison population?

Laws are tools we use to shape our society the way we want it to be. They're an expression of our ideals, our social mores. The law is, to its credit, largely colorblind. But what if law enforcement isn't? What if laws are applied more harshly based on skin color? Is that truly a just and fair society? The core complaint behind BLM is that black people face a struggle against society and its agents that whites are largely oblivious or even indifferent to. Can you honestly say that they're wrong to make that complaint? That after 150 years of ongoing improvement in the equalisation of blacks and whites in society with no end to that process in sight, they're not justified in making their complaints more visible?
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:56 am

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I agree, The E.

Blacks have been hosed since the country was founded. What is the solution? Some argue that preference must be given to offset that prior injustice. Yet that solution maintains a legal segregation of blacks based on skin color. It also visit further injustice to people who do not deserve it based on skin color. How will racial prejudice be overcome with racial bias? It won't.

I believe the best solution is an aggressively racial neutral approach to applying the law accompanied by an equally aggressive condemnation of breaking the law. Blacks are no better or worse in aggregate than any group. There are disparities in education, income, literacy and general employable skills all of our various communities. Those should be addressed where ever they are found. These handicaps don't need the "blessing" of the right skin color to address.

The "targeted" help backs have received since Johnson's Great Society has resulted in black two parent households talking from 77% the year he took office to 24% currently. How the hell does a group fight their way out of poverty when they are handicapped with the one greatest driver of poverty; the single parent household? The policies created to aid them encourage the formation of single parent households.

If I didn't firmly believe people like gcomeau were truly desiring to help, I would conclude every single progressive/liberal hated blacks to visit such a cycle destruction upon them. As it is I believe liberal/progressive politicians use rhetoric promoting policies that keep blacks dependent on government assistance to secure votes no matter the cost to those blacks effected.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Imaginos1892   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:31 pm

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The sad fact is that if you pick a crime at random, any crime, the odds are greater than 2 to 1 that the criminal is black. Blacks commit almost 70% of the crime in this country. Not all blacks, either; it's only a small minority. Almost 70% of the crime is committed by less than 3% of the people, and most of them look, dress, and act a certain way. For the police to fail to pay particular attention to that 3% is a dereliction of their duty, and stupid.

When I see these highly publicized "atrocities", the first thing I want to know is, who did the police kill? How long a criminal record did the "victim" have? How many people has the "innocent youth" robbed, hurt, raped, killed? In most cases the answer is very long, and a lot.
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If you call 9-1-1 and tell them that somebody with a gun is breaking into your house, they will send two cops in 10 or 15 minutes. If you tell them that somebody is breaking into your house and YOU have a gun, they will send 10 or 15 cops in two minutes.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by DDHv   » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:12 pm

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Imaginos1892 wrote:The sad fact is that if you pick a crime at random, any crime, the odds are greater than 2 to 1 that the criminal is black. Blacks commit almost 70% of the crime in this country. Not all blacks, either; it's only a small minority. Almost 70% of the crime is committed by less than 3% of the people, and most of them look, dress, and act a certain way. For the police to fail to pay particular attention to that 3% is a dereliction of their duty, and stupid.

When I see these highly publicized "atrocities", the first thing I want to know is, who did the police kill? How long a criminal record did the "victim" have? How many people has the "innocent youth" robbed, hurt, raped, killed? In most cases the answer is very long, and a lot.
---------------
If you call 9-1-1 and tell them that somebody with a gun is breaking into your house, they will send two cops in 10 or 15 minutes. If you tell them that somebody is breaking into your house and YOU have a gun, they will send 10 or 15 cops in two minutes.


Maybe it would make sense to have carrying depend on getting solid training in using for defensive purposes and safety - and nothing else except that using for crime disqualifies you thereafter
:idea: :?:
Douglas Hvistendahl
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Dumb mistakes are very irritating.
Smart mistakes go on forever
Unless you test your assumptions!
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Annachie   » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:40 am

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So, based on quotes in the article, who spotted the flaw in the Harvard results due to methodology?

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You are so going to die. :p ~~~~ runsforcelery
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by dscott8   » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:41 am

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Here's a very good documentary on the history of the gun and its effect on society, hosted by Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_uMxwUs308

It's fairly even-handed on the pros and cons, and though it's several years old, still looks at future developments we haven't seen yet in general use.
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