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Guns, Guns Guns

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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by HB of CJ   » Thu May 26, 2016 10:37 am

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He was probably denied the carry permit because the powers that be had the power to decide ... and they will always default to the seat and exercise of power. Not for the public good. Not for the individual good. This appears to be the human condition. Power. Greed. Control.

Or ... he could always decide to just carry anyway. His need of self protection outweighs any governments decision to not give him that absolute individual right. That is not governments call. It is the individuals decision. Some bad laws must be ignored. This is our situation.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by jchilds   » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:00 am

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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/13-000-super-rifle-locks-171203594.html?nhp=1

It can record video for later sharing on Facebook?!? This'll end well...
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Tenshinai   » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:56 pm

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jchilds wrote:https://uk.news.yahoo.com/13-000-super-rifle-locks-171203594.html?nhp=1

It can record video for later sharing on Facebook?!? This'll end well...


With the amount of hype that is included, hopefully only amateurs will use it, and miss.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:13 pm

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All my sympathy to the victims of Orlando and their families at this sad time.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:29 am

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Hilary is already calling for gun control...maybe if one person in the club had a concealed handgun permit this terrorist act would have been a lot less deadly. Do these clubs have metal detectors...sorry but I have not been to a club in years. I wish this had not happened.

Radical Islam has declared war on the rest of civilization. Of this is too much...ACLU leader is blaming the Christians for this attack. Please go get your facts correct. http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/aclu-lawyers-blames-christians-for-orlando-terror-attack/
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:49 am

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smr wrote:Hilary is already calling for gun control...maybe if one person in the club had a concealed handgun permit this terrorist act would have been a lot less deadly. Do these clubs have metal detectors...sorry but I have not been to a club in years. I wish this had not happened.


Out of a random group of gun owners, how many do you think are capable of reacting correctly in a situation where a shooting in a dark, crowded, loud room happens?

You can claim that having someone armed in that crowd might have stopped the shooting all day long, but unless that someone is very highly trained, you'd be wrong.

Radical Islam has declared war on the rest of civilization. Of this is too much...ACLU leader is blaming the Christians for this attack. Please go get your facts correct. http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/12/aclu-lawyers-blames-christians-for-orlando-terror-attack/


Why not blame american gun owners and gun ownership advocates for consistently blocking the introduction of mandatory background checks and mandatory safety training?

(Not that those measures would have helped in this case. There were no indications prior to the attack that the perpetrator was planning it)
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by smr   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:06 am

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Except this individual has been on the terrorism watch list not once but twice. Got to love those liberals/progressives.

Excuse me but having a concealed handgun could have reduced the carnage! Just look to Israel, how many terrorists have been killed by concealed handgun owners....a bunch!

Edit: He was investigated twice by the FBI for Radicalization not put on terrorist watch list.
Last edited by smr on Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by The E   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:44 am

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Except this individual has been on the terrorism watch list not once but twice. Got to love those liberals/progressives.


So how come he was able to obtain a handgun and a rifle legally a week or two before the shooting?

(Also, "has been on the watch list", my ass. He was investigated twice and found to be guilty of nothing except inflammatory rhetoric. He was never on the no-fly list or under serious long-term surveillance.)

smr wrote:Excuse me but having a concealed handgun could have reduced the carnage! Just look to Israel, how many terrorists have been killed by concealed handgun owners....a bunch!


Yes, it could have. But it is highly unlikely, unless that concealed carry person is very highly trained for situations like that, and as far as I know, that training is not mandatory to obtain a CC license. Again: Dark room. Packed with people. Loud music. Suddenly, gun shots. How many people can be trusted to do the right thing in that situation?
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:54 am

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I know that I'm wasting my time typing this but be aware that among the international headlines concerning this atrocity, there are some saying words to the tune of "Wait for it, the US gun loonies will now claim that the fix for gun massacres is more guns". As predicted here it is.

No point in pointing out the obvious but why have assault rifles legally available to anyone with the cash? I have used them on the range and in hunting feral pigs, but really they have only one true function, to kill humans wholesale.
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Re: Guns, Guns Guns
Post by dscott8   » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:18 am

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smr wrote:Excuse me but having a concealed handgun could have reduced the carnage! Just look to Israel, how many terrorists have been killed by concealed handgun owners....a bunch!


A couple of points, seeing as I live 23 miles from Orlando and have a concealed weapons permit:

1. You can't compare Florida permit holders to Israelis. In Florida, a "shall issue" state, you get a permit with minimal training unless the State finds positive evidence to deny it. I could have just presented my DD214 military service record and got the permit, but chose to take the Sheriff's Dept course for the training on legal issues. There is NO training on tactical issues, like they do in Israel with their mandatory service. I suspect that in a mass shooting situation, some permit holders would wind up shooting each other even after the bad guy had gone down.

2. Concealed weapons are a bad idea in a place that serves alcohol. For every incident where a permit holder saves the day, you'd have a hundred where some drunk shot another drunk over a football game or a pass at his girlfriend. The Pulse nightclub had an off-duty police officer present for security, and he did his job, but one cop is not enough for an attack like this.

I believe that self-defense is a right, recognized for centuries, and that a right is useless without the tools to exercise it. I also believe that no right is absolute. Just as free speech does not allow me to slander you, self-defense should not allow me to put the public at risk by carrying a firearm without proper training. That's proper training, including legal and tactical. It should also restrict me from carrying while under the influence, just like with driving.
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